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Out of Iraq

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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Huckleby » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:33 pm

he accused of holding positions that I don't hold, that's as strawmany as it gets.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby wack wack » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:13 pm

atron67 wrote:wack wack, why were there offers from washington to stay in Iraq if obama is so "loudly proudly anti-dumb war"? one would think he is the one in charge of making those offers.

are you disputing that there were offers from washington to stay in Iraq?


Sorry I didn't see this earlier... there is a difference between willingness and desire. I don't deny that Obama was willing to stay. You said he was, "trying to stay..." which sounds to me like an expression of desire.

Making an offer is not necessarily an expression of desire; I offer to do things I don't really want to do all the time, don't you?

I was disputing the notion that Obama wanted to stay in Iraq. Willing? Yes. Wanted to? No.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Stella_Guru » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:52 am

Huckleby wrote: Democracy produces unpleasant results sometimes. The main struggle is for the hearts and minds of the people, that drives everything.

Not looking forward to another season of unrealistic campaign promises followed by the "peoples government" conspiring with the moneyed class and their bankers to create public hysteria through fear, in support of profit accumulation. In a plutocracy, dollars rule. In a democracy, people rule.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Huckleby » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:52 am

Stella_Guru wrote: In a plutocracy, dollars rule. In a democracy, people rule.

There is a lot of legitimacy to your talk of plutocracy and corruption. We do have some very rotten structural problems, and they've gotten a lot worse the last few years.

There is nothing new under the sun. The far left has declared our political system unredeemable and unreflective of the people since the Russian Revolution. I can remember when Jimmy Carter was the antichrist. Noam Chomsky, the Imperial Grand Dragon of the cult of paranoia, has been preaching the-fix-is-in for 30 years.

We still have a system where public opinion is (by far) the strongest force. The composition of the House of Representatives wouldn't be in constant flux if democratic forces weren't at play.

The people of America have a very strong conservative streak, and leftists just can not understand or accept that Ronald Reagan, who campaigned against Welfare Queens, is beloved by many Americans. The public does support leftist positions on a lot of specific issues, but they are a frustrating lot, those people.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:15 am

Henry Vilas wrote:As I said years ago, these wars will end the same way the Vietnam War ended. After dragging on your years, Americans will tire of these fruitless endeavors, the president will declare victory and bring our troops home. Then all hell will break loose.

No matter how long we prolong those wars, the results will be the same.

We finally pulled out of Iraq (mostly) and hell is starting to break out already. First an Iraqi vice president (seems they have more than one) is charged with treason for directing Sunni on Shiite religious violence and now this: Baghdad explosions kill at least 60 people.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Huckleby » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:42 am

Iraq is a thoroughly depressing situation.

Opponents of the decision to invade Iraq see vindication in the instability there, they claim proof that Iraq was doomed to fail (see Henry Vilas above.) There is an almost gleeful triumphalism.

The other side is perhaps even more repugnant. Republicans claim Iraq fell apart on Obama's watch as he sought political advantage at home.

Iraq is not a political football. No broad theory about Iraq, from either side, has held water. Being right doesn't matter, what matters is that the country somehow muddle its way through.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:25 am

Huckleby wrote:Iraq is a thoroughly depressing situation.

Opponents of the decision to invade Iraq see vindication in the instability there, they claim proof that Iraq was doomed to fail (see Henry Vilas above.) There is an almost gleeful triumphalism.

Bulllshit. I am veteran who served four years during the Vietnam War. I am sad that history is repeating itself. I see the same thing happening after we finally withdraw from Afghanistan. I take no glee in that.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Huckleby » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:35 am

I was not assigning glee to you in particular. Been reading meessage boards at Wash Post.

You have no clue about what will happen in Iraq. It remains utterly unpredeictable. Those who are certain are working from broad models and ideology. The people who know the most about Iraq are the least confident.

I'm worried sick.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:25 pm

Huckleby wrote:I was not assigning glee to you in particular.

You certainly did, you disingenuous asshole.

Huckleby wrote:Opponents of the decision to invade Iraq see vindication in the instability there, they claim proof that Iraq was doomed to fail (see Henry Vilas above.) There is an almost gleeful triumphalism.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Huckleby » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:46 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Huckleby wrote:I was not assigning glee to you in particular.

You certainly did, you disingenuous asshole.
that's how it read, but was not my intent, there was no glee in your short post. Its foolish to question sincerity of other posters.

my intent was to identify you as a know-it-all, and know-it-alls have all been wrong on Iraq saga, and likely will continue to miss the mark.

The most worrying thing about Iraq is that the Sunni's have identified with the protesters in Syria, and the government has, nominally at least, supported Assad, although maybe they are hedging. A regionally war is brewing which could be hell on earth.

The hope I see is that Kurds will patch things up with Sunnis and form counter weight. Maybe fact that Kurds are sheltering the Sunni Vice President point in that way.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:52 pm

Huckleby wrote:my intent was to identify you as a know-it-all, and know-it-alls have all been wrong on Iraq saga, and likely will continue to miss the mark.

Says the guy who had "direct evidence" that the Walker recall drive would likely fail. Go to the mirror, boy.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Huckleby » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:55 pm

I never said Walker recall would likely fail.

I relayed worrying concerns of people working on the effort who are close to me, which you arrogantly and comically dismissed out of hand as "hear say evidence."
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:00 pm

Huckleby wrote:I never said Walker recall would likely fail.

Liar.

Huckleby wrote:I fear the recall is going to fall short. People are not outside in public areas in cold months. People stay home, or they drive to grocery stores, theaters and shopping malls.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Huckleby » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:02 pm

My fears were not a prediction.

If I had predicted, I would have expected the effort to struggle mightally, readjust, and barely pass in the end.

you should hold that "liar" word in reserve, hot head.
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Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:05 pm

Huckleby wrote:My fears were not a prediction.

Was it just pure paranoia instead? You must be getting dizzy from all that spinning.
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