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Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby rabble » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:31 am

Earthling wrote:He promised to create 250,000 in four years. Pretty sure he didn't know that he may only have 1 year to make good on the promise considering he was elected for a four year term. You can't hold him accountable for the number if you recall him.

So, the loss in the beginning is a "you have to spend jobs to make jobs" sort of thing? I can sorta understand that thinking, I guess. Lots of system revamps have initial drops in output until they stabilize.

I'd be grateful if I could get a little more clarity on that, though. In most systems analysis reports and recommendations, they're pretty specific about what will be done and have time windows for the expected initial reaction and recovery time, with best and worst case scenarios. Can you help me out with some facts?
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Earthling » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:43 am

rabble wrote:
Earthling wrote:He promised to create 250,000 in four years. Pretty sure he didn't know that he may only have 1 year to make good on the promise considering he was elected for a four year term. You can't hold him accountable for the number if you recall him.

So, the loss in the beginning is a "you have to spend jobs to make jobs" sort of thing? I can sorta understand that thinking, I guess. Lots of system revamps have initial drops in output until they stabilize.

I'd be grateful if I could get a little more clarity on that, though. In most systems analysis reports and recommendations, they're pretty specific about what will be done and have time windows for the expected initial reaction and recovery time, with best and worst case scenarios. Can you help me out with some facts?


I can't seem to find the projections you're looking for, but much of his plan involves creating a friendlier business climate to attract companies to the state. I think he's begun to do that, but it does take time.

http://www.scottwalker.org/sites/default/files/Jobs%20Special%20Session%20Packet.pdf
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:44 am

Walker Has No Regrets About Jobs Promise

After all, his false promise help get him elected. A chicken in every pot.
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Earthling » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:46 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Walker Has No Regrets About Jobs Promise

After all, his false promise help get him elected. A chicken in every pot.


"False promise?"
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:51 am

"False promise?"


Sorry. Maybe he meant "False Premise". As in "The idea that cutting corporate tax rates creates jobs is a false premise".
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Earthling » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:03 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
"False promise?"


Sorry. Maybe he meant "False Premise". As in "The idea that cutting corporate tax rates creates jobs is a false premise".


That could be debated forever I suppose. Most business leaders agree with the premise that lowering corporate tax rates increases business' profility, which leads to expansion, which leads to job creation. The unemployment rate is a lagging indicator of the health of an economy. This article: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/07/60minutes/main20117358.shtml suggests that leveling the playing field with other countries (US currently has the highest corporate tax rate in the world) would lead to job creation.
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Coplay » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:25 pm

There's good news and bad news. The good news is that Gov. Wanker can't take credit for any job gains. The bad news is that there is little or no job creation. Even worse, let's face it, the job sector is not going to recover because overall America is on the decline. There are too many people for too few jobs or people do not have the skills to work certain jobs.

Oh yeah, Happy Holidays.
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby wack wack » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 pm

Earthling wrote:Most business leaders agree with the premise that lowering corporate tax rates increases business' profility, which leads to expansion, which leads to job creation.


This might be what "most business leaders" claim, but those of us who actually do the work for these "business leaders" know the claim is complete crap.

Profitability leads first and foremost to... profit. Bonuses to executives and payout to stockholders, mostly.

Expansion comes from investing in technology, which allows a business to expand, specifically and directly without hiring more people.

And when they do need to hire people, they use the "uncertainty" excuse to justify hiring temps, rather than create full-time, living-wage jobs.

Seriously, how much longer are we going to have to listen to this crap? is unemployment really so extensive that people have forgotten how business really works?

Lower taxes do not create jobs. Lower my taxes, I have no demand, I'm not hiring anyone or expanding my business. Raise my taxes, I have high demand, I am going to hire and expand regardless of what the tax code dictates.

And honestly, if your business is so close to the margins that a change in taxes really makes a difference, you have other serious problems. Everybody loves to talk about the dumb people who bought "too much house." Well, there are lots of people out there who own way too much business: they don't have the knowledge or resources to run a truly, independently successful business. Why doesn't anybody pick on them?
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Earthling » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:49 pm

Coplay wrote:There's good news and bad news. The good news is that Gov. Wanker can't take credit for any job gains. The bad news is that there is little or no job creation. Even worse, let's face it, the job sector is not going to recover because overall America is on the decline. There are too many people for too few jobs or people do not have the skills to work certain jobs.

Oh yeah, Happy Holidays.


So he can't take credit for the gains, but you're going to blame him for not creating enough new ones? Has to be one way or the other.

America is actually on the rebound as far as jobs and the economy are concerned: http://host.madison.com/business/claims-lowest-since-as-job-market-improves/article_24ffc885-893d-5eae-abce-9a277b96660f.html
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Earthling » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:55 pm

wack wack wrote:
Earthling wrote:Most business leaders agree with the premise that lowering corporate tax rates increases business' profility, which leads to expansion, which leads to job creation.


And honestly, if your business is so close to the margins that a change in taxes really makes a difference, you have other serious problems. Everybody loves to talk about the dumb people who bought "too much house." Well, there are lots of people out there who own way too much business: they don't have the knowledge or resources to run a truly, independently successful business. Why doesn't anybody pick on them?


This is the problem. The businesses that are right on the edge are the ones that dictate whether we have a good or bad economic situation in this country. You are correct in that the businesses that are thriving don't have to worry as much about the tax code, but many these corporations put much of their money overseas because other countries have a more generous corporate tax rate. They are going to do this because their responsibility is to their shareholders, not to the U.S. government, and it enables them to save more of their money.
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:01 pm

but many these corporations put much of their money overseas because other countries have a more generous corporate tax rate. They are going to do this because their responsibility is to their shareholders, not to the U.S. government, and it enables them to save more of their money.


True patriots. If they are employing US workers we are paying for their education, their safety, their energy infrastructure, their roads.... etc. They return the favor by buying our politicians and taking their money elsewhere. And when we've bent over and taken as much as we can they pack up and move to India and we cut them a check for their expenses. I say fuck 'em. End their tax breaks for relocating (obvious one there) and tax the holy fuck out of their goods when they send them on ships to be sold to the American consumers whose jobs they just destroyed. Republicans seem to think the best way forward is to keep grabbing your ankles.
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby rabble » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:04 pm

Earthling wrote:
Coplay wrote:There's good news and bad news. The good news is that Gov. Wanker can't take credit for any job gains. The bad news is that there is little or no job creation. Even worse, let's face it, the job sector is not going to recover because overall America is on the decline. There are too many people for too few jobs or people do not have the skills to work certain jobs.

Oh yeah, Happy Holidays.


So he can't take credit for the gains, but you're going to blame him for not creating enough new ones? Has to be one way or the other.

America is actually on the rebound as far as jobs and the economy are concerned: http://host.madison.com/business/claims-lowest-since-as-job-market-improves/article_24ffc885-893d-5eae-abce-9a277b96660f.html

I think what he's saying is that there aren't any gains to take credit for. :-)

And you do understand that a major reason for the claims drop is that large numbers of people have run out their time and have just given up, right? Every expert out there says our real unemployment levels are much higher because we don't count the people who don't qualify for unemployment claims.
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Petro » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:11 pm

Earthling wrote:This is the problem. The businesses that are right on the edge are the ones that dictate whether we have a good or bad economic situation in this country. You are correct in that the businesses that are thriving don't have to worry as much about the tax code, but many these corporations put much of their money overseas because other countries have a more generous corporate tax rate. They are going to do this because their responsibility is to their shareholders, not to the U.S. government, and it enables them to save more of their money.


Less than 25% of corporations pay the full 35% corporate tax rate. IIRC, less than 40% even pay half of it. (Everyone read the story of how GE paid zero corporate tax last year, I'm sure.)

We should have a consistent tax rate before we even talk about lowering it.
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Earthling » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:30 am

Petro wrote:
Earthling wrote:This is the problem. The businesses that are right on the edge are the ones that dictate whether we have a good or bad economic situation in this country. You are correct in that the businesses that are thriving don't have to worry as much about the tax code, but many these corporations put much of their money overseas because other countries have a more generous corporate tax rate. They are going to do this because their responsibility is to their shareholders, not to the U.S. government, and it enables them to save more of their money.


Less than 25% of corporations pay the full 35% corporate tax rate. IIRC, less than 40% even pay half of it. (Everyone read the story of how GE paid zero corporate tax last year, I'm sure.)

We should have a consistent tax rate before we even talk about lowering it.


Yes GE paid zero corporate tax because of their huge investment in green energy. I agree that some loopholes should be closed, and there should be more of a flat tax rate that all companies have to abide by. You still have to give companies incentives to invest in green technologies because at this point it doesn't normally make sense to from a fiscal perspective.
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:27 am

According to an analysis this month by BadgerStat, a nonpartisan research group with ties to UW-Madison, Wisconsin had an annual job-growth rate of minus 0.2 percent over the last 10 years, or 39th in the nation. Nationally, jobs grew at an average annual rate of 0.19 percent.


Wisconsin State Journal
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