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The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby snoqueen » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:48 am

I think the way the bishops have picked the issue on which they have the least buy-in from their church members is no accident. If they can't get voluntary compliance they're going to try and get the government to do their work for them.

Also they seem to think social justice issues are more optional, or a second-tier concern. This is unfortunate because the church overall is still large and wealthy and could be using some of its remaining powers for good instead of for lobbying and political disputes.

I know people take their church membership fairly seriously and in some families it goes back generations and generations, but the whole organization is in such a state of decay these days it's hard to imagine how much longer it will be taken seriously.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby DCB » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:34 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Will the bishops also challenge the 28 states that already have this mandate? Or it all about Obama and the upcoming presidential election?

No.

Yes.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Meade » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:19 pm

pjbogart wrote:It is nice, however, to see Kleefisch affirming Roe v. Wade's principle that the private relationship between you and your doctor are none of the government's business.


Medicare? Obamacare?

Work on that.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby DCB » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:33 pm

Meade wrote:
pjbogart wrote:It is nice, however, to see Kleefisch affirming Roe v. Wade's principle that the private relationship between you and your doctor are none of the government's business.


Medicare? Obamacare?

Work on that.

Medicare and the Affordable Care Act regulate insurance costs, not medical decisions.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Huckleby » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 pm

I've been obsessed with this issue, it is such a fascinating insight into people.

I totally understand the aversion by Catholics (and it did include the people, not just the leadership) to being forced to pay for birth control. It was an insult to their religion, and probably crossed the line on religous freedom. A lot of reasonable people were upset.

The accomodation (more like an accounting trick, but it does the symbolic job) that Obama offered last friday has cleverly peeled-off the people with legitimate concerns with religous dignity, and left behind the anti-government types and anti-contraception kooks. The Dems are in a good position politically now. I will be happy to see a noisy brouhaha going forward.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby pjbogart » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:29 pm

DCB wrote:
Meade wrote:
pjbogart wrote:It is nice, however, to see Kleefisch affirming Roe v. Wade's principle that the private relationship between you and your doctor are none of the government's business.


Medicare? Obamacare?

Work on that.

Medicare and the Affordable Care Act regulate insurance costs, not medical decisions.


Pffff. Meade is clearly referring to the government takeover of healthcare and Obama's effort to transform American's healthcare into a European-style universal healthcare nanny state. Rush Limbaugh was talking about it at CPAC. Are you calling Rush Limbaugh a liar?
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby WestSideYuppie » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:49 pm

Catholics can't argue that they are paying for birth control, because birth control saves them money.

Here's an idea: Let Catholics preserve their religious dignity by having them return the money that they save, back to the government.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby snoqueen » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:26 am

Or they could try what committed religious pacifists have tried for years: withhold that percent of their taxes that goes to military spending.

Which in the case of the birth control objectors is probably something like three cents a year, so they'd probably get away with it.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Huckleby » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:07 am

WestSideYuppie wrote:Catholics can't argue that they are paying for birth control, because birth control saves them money.

Here's an idea: Let Catholics preserve their religious dignity by having them return the money that they save, back to the government.

"catholics" is a meaningless generalization. But maybe you are refering to the church power brokers.

I think it is important not to turn this controversy into us versus catholics.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Ned Flanders » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:23 am

This is one of those "you have to pass the bill to find out what's in the bill" moments. Many, many more of these to come, by the way.

As for the Church, "if you lie down with with dogs, you wake up with fleas". Maybe they'll learn someday.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Huckleby » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:40 am

Ned Flanders wrote:As for the Church, "if you lie down with with dogs, you wake up with fleas". Maybe they'll learn someday.

The Catholic bishops strongly opposed healthcare reform. But maybe you are criticizing the church's long tradition of helping the poor. Hard to say what logic is running through your head on this one.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Marvell » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:55 am

Maybe Ned's into training fleas.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Detritus » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:07 am

Ned Flanders wrote:As for the Church, "if you lie down with with dogs, you wake up with fleas". Maybe they'll learn someday.

In this case, I believe the phrase the Church is facing is "If you lie down with Republicans you wake up pregnant."
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby Ned Flanders » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:09 am

Huckleby wrote:The Catholic bishops strongly opposed healthcare reform.

Wrong.
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Re: The Catholic Church, health care and birth control

Postby jasonx5 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:17 am

Detritus wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:As for the Church, "if you lie down with with dogs, you wake up with fleas". Maybe they'll learn someday.

In this case, I believe the phrase the Church is facing is "If you lie down with Republicans you wake up pregnant."

Its good marketing for the church. The more catholics that produce more catholics, means more catholics handing over dough to the church.
According to many who think republicans are racist, you would think the republicans would want birth control to keep all of those Mexican Catholics from reproducing
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