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How to improve TDPF

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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby David Marshall » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:27 pm

We've tried writing rules before. All that leads to is people working to exploit loopholes, which leads to needing more rules which then leads to arguing about rules. The government that governs least governs best, right? You can never keep up with the people intent on breaking rules.


Amen bother, to all you said in the quote above and the post associated with it. I see what is happening here as democracy in action and appreciate you fighting for it!

Thank you
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby doppel » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:49 pm

jjoyce wrote:Here's my idea: Let's make Wednesday a clean and nice day on Forum. If anyone posts anything offensive tomorrow, I'll delete the comment and ban the user. No warnings, no tolerance, no argument.

Good?

Good.


Bad?

Bad.

Why would you pick on Wednesday? As my 7th grade math teacher announced on every Wednesday. "It's hump day. Peak of the week." Besides, it's not fair to anyone who didn't read your post. Delete the post maybe, but automatic, autocratic exile? Get thee to the gulag? Guantanamo? Heavy handed-- like Roberto Duran and and his Manos de Pierdra. Your idea is further overboard than bale of cocaine with the Coast Guard in hot pursuit. Or in more common parlance, it sucks donkey dick.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby Meade » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:32 pm

jjoyce wrote:If you're going to hold me responsible for offensive content (insisting that not condemning it means condoning it), when I have produced none of it, then you need to take responsibility for your own role in the situation.

You're the administrator of the forum. Your responsibility is to make it good. My working theory is that people do what they want to do and stop doing what they don't want to do. So my assumption is that you approve of the forum just as it is.

jjoyce wrote:Retweeting implies agreement, to invoke a saying from another part of the web. If you think there should be less offensive language on this board, then what the hell are you doing re-posting it? A link would have worked just as well.

Quoting something means you agree with it? I have never heard of that concept before. That is one of the most bizarre things I have heard here. Besides, this forum is not Twitter.

jjoyce wrote:But instead, you made the decision to reproduce it. I see what you're doing there, but if you want the boards to be less offensive, then maybe you should pitch in on the cleanup. I operate under the assumption that most people want to participate in a lively, somewhat politically incorrect conversation, like they'd find at the neighborhood tavern. But it's becoming increasingly clear that there's a small group of people who don't like the board, don't like the people who participate here regularly, don't like Madison, don't like liberals. Apparently, they just can't help themselves from logging on constantly, however, and making sure we all know about their dislike. There's no winning with them. It's impossible to build a board they like and even if you could, you'd abandon all the decent posters.

No you wouldn't. Delete any comment you find not to be decent. You'll get a mix of contributors who will learn what your standards of decency are.

jjoyce wrote:I'm also aware that there are a number of people who don't have much on their plates who like to pick fights here. I have no problem until that tone starts to take over the board. These folks have big issues with profanity. They often don't have much of an issue with regurgitating hackneyed talking points or presenting their unoriginal ideas ad nauseum or berating others over their politics and lifestyles, however (and a lot of them do it anonymously, for those of you lobbying for an end to that). There's no winning with these people, either. I think they're bored and angry most of the time.

I said before that I don't think the problem is use of pseudonyms. It's also not offensiveness or incivility. The problem is boringness, cliquishness, and self-indulgence.

jjoyce wrote:That's the problem with rules. It's hard to write them to keep the true a-holes in check. The board is best when people who are neither bored nor angry dominate. These folks tend to work in kitchens, play in rock bands, ride mountain bikes, play pond hockey, throw pots, smoke pot, drive cab, listen to punk rock, listen to classical music, drink cheap beer, drink expensive beer, write bad poems, hate Brett Favre, hate Rick Santorum, hate Facebook, hate email, love standing around talking shit. A lot of those people like to use colorful language and a lot of people who object to that are hypocrites and/or not very interesting.

I agree. Ha ha - very poetically written.

jjoyce wrote:This is why the best Forons don't limit their activities to the hot-button political threads. They might sound off there, but they'll also chime in when it comes to handyman recommendations or road construction or lake odor or drinks or grilling tips.

The best contributors to this forum rarely post on this forum. They would post more if the administrator used a stronger hand on the delete key and erased stupidity, personal insults, boringness, and indecency. You have to be careful though. It's easy to over-delete. But it's an art and it results in vigorous lively debate that is diverse and not cliquish.

jjoyce wrote:We've tried writing rules before. All that leads to is people working to exploit loopholes, which leads to needing more rules which then leads to arguing about rules. The government that governs least governs best, right? You can never keep up with the people intent on breaking rules.

You're the administrator. Take control. That is your job, right? Just like with being a parent - never argue, never explain. Make the rules and change the rules as you see fit. You are not the government - you're the administrator. The administrator who administrates most, administrates best.

ps: My suggestion of charging a dollar per post was half serious. But why not charge something? What's it worth to have a community forum to post on? What does the bandwidth cost Isthmus? I think you'd get better contributions if "free speech" here wasn't completely "free" if you know what I mean.

Thanks for entertaining my suggestions.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby pjbogart » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:49 pm

Good points.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby snoqueen » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:58 pm

The best contributors to this forum rarely post on this forum. They would post more if the administrator used a stronger hand on the delete key and erased stupidity, personal insults, boringness, and indecency.


No-swear Wednesday (or whatever it was called) was the dullest day here in years. I may not be stupid, insulting, boring (well, not all the time), or indecent but without those forms of entertainment in the mix, who'd log in? We've got some bright, very funny contributors with good information, good research skills, and a variety of earned expertise to offer.

There's a place for decorum (people's individual blogs, for example, if they choose) and a place for mixing it up. This forum gets it right more often than not.

In my experience, making rules just creates a game where people bend them and niggle and whine, and the rules become more of a topic than the topics. Forget it.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:16 pm

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby john_titor » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:25 pm

I was not familiar with your personal history Meade, until the other day when I saw some links. It has me interested in your back story.

As for your litany, go easy man. For what it is worth, I would not post on your forum. Forum administrators being unfair; c'est la vie.

Stebben84 wrote:I wish the conservatives on the forum...
...Ned actually does and I'll give him some credit for that. Despite our differences we all have good ideas to share. ... It doesn't always have to be political.


I agree. Can you change someone's way of thinking via a post on an internet board? I don't know. Maybe.

Ned and my politics differ, but man he totally nails them sometimes. Out of the park stuff.

Ned Flanders wrote:I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm gonna volunteer my leadership to this forum. Any forum without leaders is like a foot without a big toe. And Joycie isn't always gonna be here to be that big toe for us. I think that we owe a big round of applause to our bestest buddy, and big toe... Joycie.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby David Marshall » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:57 pm

John,
You do know that that bit by Ned was lifted from the movie Stripes? Regardless of what the Sargeant intends to do with that big toe, am I missing some satire on your part?
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby gargantua » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:50 pm

Like Sno, I found Wednesday pretty boring, but it was just the first time. While I think it's dumb, I am an advocate for trying different things. So call it an experiment, try it for a few weeks, and then we can all check in and see how we feel after it's had a chance.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby pjbogart » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:46 pm

I take full responsibility for today's forum hangover. It was the kitten pics, I'm sure of it. They just sapped that essential fight that we need in order to remain forons. Jason demanded that we be polite for a whole day, but he didn't say anything about kittens.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby pjbogart » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:55 pm

john_titor wrote:I was not familiar with your personal history Meade, until the other day when I saw some links. It has me interested in your back story.


Yeah, not to pick at scabs, but consider this angle. Meade and his hubby, a tenured law professor go down to the Capitol to pick fights with... get this... overpaid teachers with too much job security!

It's like an article out of The Onion.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby john_titor » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:25 pm

We want to protest, why can't they?

I think it is interesting on a variety of levels. How old is Mr. Meade? Was he married previously? Does he have children? How big of a star was she in his eyes? If huge, how cool is that? How long has he been on the internet? What does he do for a living? I don't know how to describe it, but when your partner is more "famous" than you, what's that like?

David Marshall wrote:John,
You do know that that bit by Ned was lifted from the movie Stripes? Regardless of what the Sargeant intends to do with that big toe, am I missing some satire on your part?


I do and I did. No satire on my part, I thought it was clever.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby Ducatista » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:34 pm

Meade wrote:But why not charge something?

Because that's fucking idiotic. I could afford to post all over the place (which I'm guessing wouldn't be to your liking). Some of the "best contributors on the forum," as you describe them, might not be able to post so much, or at all, and we'd all suffer for that. Money should not equal speech.
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby pjbogart » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:17 pm

Ducatista wrote:
Meade wrote:But why not charge something?

Because that's fucking idiotic. I could afford to post all over the place (which I'm guessing wouldn't be to your liking). Some of the "best contributors on the forum," as you describe them, might not be able to post so much, or at all, and we'd all suffer for that. Money should not equal speech.


Meade has his own blog, sort of. Perhaps this has been an idea he's been floating for his own blog to supplement his income. It's a terrible idea, but you never had a terrible idea that you daydreamed about for a few days?
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Re: How to improve TDPF

Postby bdog » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:28 pm

pjbogart wrote:Yeah, not to pick at scabs, but consider this angle. Meade and his hubby,

Damn Peej, you and Ned Flanders are like 2 peas in a pod.

Meade's married to a strong woman so put him down by calling her "hubby". Implied is that he is the "wife". And we all know wives are weaker than hubbys don't we Peej?

Nice slam but at least ... now we know how you think. Thanks, and...

Good Points!
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