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What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby kurt_w » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:58 am

Meade wrote:
kurt_w wrote:If I were to develop diabetes, you want to have some kind of panel that would scrutinize my behavior and lifestyle, and if that panel decided I'd eaten too much unhealthy food, or been too sedentary, my insurance company could refuse to pay for my medical care?

Yes. A government panel. Scrutinizing your diet and exercise habits.
Why not?


This is where the "bait and switch" comes in. Note that we've suddenly gone from discussing whether private insurance companies should be allowed to deny coverage, to whether "government" panels should be allowed to deny coverage.

Meade, essentially, wants to get you all riled up about government interference in the insurance market ... but he's quite unconcerned about "death panels", as long as they're private-sector "death panels".
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:03 am

snoqueen wrote:He observes that contraception helps encourage sex, and sex is a healthful behavior just like eating right and exercising, which are activities some health insurance actually subsidizes these days. I seriously believe this is a stronger argument than any of the religious nonsense pushed by the far right, and I hadn't seen it expressed in print before Rickert's column.

Then Rush Limbaugh was right. Many on the left really DO want government to subsidize and encourage more sexual activity. You want to be monetarily rewarded for having sex. How is that not a form of prostitution?
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:07 am

kurt_w wrote:Meade, essentially, wants to get you all riled up about government interference in the insurance market ... but he's quite unconcerned about "death panels", as long as they're private-sector "death panels".

I'm in favor of more competition and choice, not less. Less is what you will get as Obamacare swings into full force. I say, let a thousand "death panels" bloom.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby jman111 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:09 am

Meade wrote:Yes. A government panel. Scrutinizing your diet and exercise habits.

See? Many on the right really DO desire an intrusive government, depsite cries to the contrary.

Ugh.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:42 am

jman111 wrote:See? Many on the right really DO desire an intrusive government

Only, I don't think snowqueen is "on the right", is she?
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby jjoyce » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:10 pm

Meade wrote:Rush Limbaugh was right.


Meade the Moderate strikes again!
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:12 pm

Meade wrote:I'm in favor of more competition and choice, not less.


Because all the choices we have now sure are driving those costs down. :roll:

Meade wrote:You want to be monetarily rewarded for having sex. How is that not a form of prostitution?


With a spouse? And you're not being "monetarily rewarded" People pay into their insurance plans for these things.

Meade wrote:
dave esmond wrote:Birth control pills are often prescribed for reasons other then keeping someone from getting pregnant.

No reason to stop those treatments.


So there are other reasons for prescribing birth control, yet there is no other reason to get a vasectomy so you think that should be covered. Any married man who gets a vasectomy is a whore. Jesus said so.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:16 pm

jjoyce wrote:
Meade wrote:Rush Limbaugh was right.


Meade the Moderate strikes again!

Joyce the Judge, Jury, and Executioner strikes again!
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:29 pm

Meade wrote:
jjoyce wrote:
Meade wrote:Rush Limbaugh was right.


Meade the Moderate strikes again!

Joyce the Judge, Jury, and Executioner strikes again!

If jjoyce was your executioner, you'd be long gone. I thought conservatives accused lefties of playing the victim. You might be pitiful, but you certainly aren't a victim in this discussion.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:34 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Meade wrote:I'm in favor of more competition and choice, not less.

Because all the choices we have now sure are driving those costs down. :roll:

In fact, they are. But your sarcasm is duly noted.
Meade wrote:You want to be monetarily rewarded for having sex. How is that not a form of prostitution?

Stebben84 wrote:With a spouse?

Sure - under this proposal, you and your spouse are being monetarily rewarded for having sex.
Stebben84 wrote:And you're not being "monetarily rewarded" People pay into their insurance plans for these things.

No they don't. People pay into their own private pockets to pay for these things. Same as they always have. People pay insurance premiums for contingencies that they can't afford to cover if those contingencies were to occur. That is what insurance is for.
Meade wrote:
dave esmond wrote:Birth control pills are often prescribed for reasons other then keeping someone from getting pregnant.

No reason to stop those treatments.

Stebben84 wrote:So there are other reasons for prescribing birth control, yet there is no other reason to get a vasectomy so you think that should be covered.

Only for you, Stebben84. And not covered by the government but by the Committee of Concerned Citizens Who Want to Freely Contribute to Your Voluntary Sterilization because you can't afford it yourself and those of us on the committee all agree it would be a common good for you to not spread your seed around.
Stebben84 wrote:Any married man who gets a vasectomy is a whore. Jesus said so.

Did Jesus really say that? Stebben?
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:41 pm

Meade wrote:Did Jesus really say that? Stebben?


Well, if I take a page out of the right wing handbook and keep saying it enough, people will believe it's true.

Meade wrote:In fact, they are. But your sarcasm is duly noted.

Really?
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=ps ... 20&bih=989
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:01 pm

Thanks for googling that for me. Here is where one of the search entries led - from NYT:
Increase Consumer Choice


Joseph Antos is the Wilson H. Taylor Scholar in Health Care and Retirement Policy at the American Enterprise Institute.

The House bill will accelerate health spending, not slow it down. It relies on higher taxes (featuring the “millionaire’s tax” that has no impact on health spending) and Medicare cuts that do little to change fee-for-service incentives — but that are unlikely to be taken when future Congresses come eye to eye with elderly constituents and their health care providers.

Open up state insurance markets to competition.
The Senate can do better. The key is promoting smarter purchasing and smarter medical practice, not easy-to-score budget cuts that keep intact payment and delivery methods that have produced unaffordable health care.

Here are some suggestions:

• Reform the tax break for health insurance. Best option: cap the exclusion and extend it to everyone, not just those who buy coverage through their employers. The Finance Committee’s tax on so-called Cadillac coverage is a second-best policy that penalizes rich and poor equally.

• Give consumers better insurance choices. Open up state insurance markets to competition. Support value-based insurance design. Provide risk-adjusted subsidies for insurance.

• Create price and value transparency. Patients need to know the cost and likely effectiveness of their treatment options — and so do their physicians. Collect real-time information about treatments and outcomes to inform clinical decisions.

• Let competition work in Medicare. Require real competitive bidding among private Medicare Advantage plans and traditional Medicare. Move to bundled and performance-based payments to promote efficiency.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:03 pm

Wow, that coming from the AEI. No bias there.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:13 pm

Sure there is bias there. But no more bias than you would find from a professor of health care policy at Harvard Medical School.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:28 pm

Meade wrote: But no more bias than you would find from a professor of health care policy at Harvard Medical School.


You're a hoot. Thanks for the afternoon chuckle.
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