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What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:57 am

snoqueen wrote:And nobody's paying the woman anything, if you go back and read. The idea is to pay the manufacturer of birth control pills or devices for its products, and medical care providers for their services. The woman doesn't get a cent.
kurt_w wrote:It is true that increased access to contraceptives might indirectly increase the likelihood of people having sex.

Don't take my word for it, kurt_w. Consult the expert, snoqueen, who said:
contraception helps encourage sex
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:09 am

snoqueen wrote:And nobody's paying the woman anything, if you go back and read. The idea is to pay the manufacturer of birth control pills or devices for its products, and medical care providers for their services. The woman doesn't get a cent.

That is true. And if you, snowqueen buy kurt_w and fistingcuff a few drinks at the bar and they then go have sex with you, they don't get a cent either.
So, technically, no, they did not whore themselves to you. But I'm curious -- in that situation, who pays for the condoms?
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby snoqueen » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:21 am

I don't disagree with the quote you attribute to me, but please note I was reporting what Rickert said. If I'd been writing on my own behalf I'd have said "contraception helps encourage healthy sex."

I am interested in the way, nationwide, conservatives (and others) seem unable to grasp the concept sex is viewed as part of a healthy life by many people. The tentacles of religious conditioning reach well into the secular sphere on this issue, and it's too bad.

Recently I had a conversation with some European exchange students (teens) and was struck by how they very obviously had more and better (and healthier) education about sex and its place in interpersonal relations and human life than most American adults do. Our whole society is way out of kilter on this one. We could do better.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:30 am

Taking my property, through taxation (or an individual mandate), in order to pay for the encouragement of you to have "healthy" sex is a legitimate power of government? Under which clause of the constitution? Serious question - the Commerce Clause?
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:49 am

Meade wrote: through taxation (or an individual mandate)


How is an individual mandate money?
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby jjoyce » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:58 am

Meade wrote:... who pays for the condoms?


This seems over the line to me, Meade. Unless I'm missing something, where have sno or kurt done anything to deserve this (fisti is a different matter, but the other two hardly deserve to be lumped in with him)? Have they been anything other than respectful, if sharp, in their disagreements with you?

The debate above has been interesting and fun to read, but I think this post takes a turn toward the kind of board you have railed against. I don't get it.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:03 pm

Stebben84 wrote:How is an individual mandate money?

The Affordable Care Act mandates that most individuals purchase, with money, health insurance. Do it, or pay, with money, a penalty.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Meade » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:19 pm

jjoyce wrote:
Meade wrote:... who pays for the condoms?
This seems over the line to me, Meade..

Over what line, Jason? It is, in fact, the question at hand: Who pays for who's birth control? Snoqueen and others want their birth control medicine and devices subsidized by way of a new government-enforced entitlement that is shoved down the throats of religious institutions in violation of their principles, aggressively - and here's the most important point - trampling their First Amendment rights.

No joke - I am not a religious person. But the establishment clause and the freedom of religion clause, in the 1st Amendment, are and should be, in my view, sacrosanct.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:24 pm

Since you brought up the establishment clause, why should special rules be in place just for the Catholic Church?
Last edited by Henry Vilas on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's the "grave moral wrong" of birth control?

Postby wack wack » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:44 pm

Why does the Establishment Clause come before the Free Exercise Clause?
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