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Gun Mania

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Re: Gun Mania

Postby snoqueen » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:15 pm

George Zimmerman's record shows he's not exactly a choirboy either:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... 6075.story
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Remember_Me » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:56 pm

snoqueen wrote:George Zimmerman's record shows he's not exactly a choirboy either:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... 6075.story


If getting belligerent with a cop at age 21 after boozing with buddies at a bar and getting behind on a credit card payment makes you a bad person forever, then half the college kids going through this city are terrible people. I did some pretty dumb things at that age too... especially with the liquid courage in me. But it seems he completed the program successfully and stayed out of trouble... even wanting to pursue a career in law enforcement.

I see a guy who called police almost 50 times in 8 years as a neighborhood watch volunteer. His biggest mistake was continuing to follow Martin. I don't know what I'd do in that situation, but if I saw someone running away for seemingly no reason and I was on duty that night as the watch guy, I assume I'd follow him so I could report his location to the police I just called. If he was looking for confrontation then where was it in the 40 some odd other incidents he reported?

His record of calling police first and patrolling his neighborhood and keeping his cool as a neighborhood watch guy for 8 years says more than the tidbits of info we're getting here. Where was his "hot headed-ness" all the other times? His years long record of seemingly doing the right thing suggests more than he's some gun-crazed racist looking to plug any blacks coming his way.

I don't know what happened. But I do think there's more to this story then the sensationalism we've been fed thus far. It bothers me that we see pictures that aren't accurate. The pic I posted with the hoodie commentary next to it is stupid and just as inflammatory. But I didn't notice it was part of the pic until I posted it.

This Zimmerman could be 100% guilty of a hate inspired crime. But I just don't think he's getting any kind of fair shake right now and I'd like to see the evidence against the guy before I skewer him publicly. His prior actions of doing the right thing while on patrol is noteworthy and important to me.

The loss of young Martin's life is tragic to no end, but I won't let my emotions get in the way of the facts that will eventually come to light.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby snoqueen » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:25 am

If getting belligerent with a cop at age 21 after boozing with buddies at a bar and getting behind on a credit card payment makes you a bad person forever, then half the college kids going through this city are terrible people.


Actually, I agree with you here especially regarding the credit cards.

The point is, anybody can be smeared, and right now in the news cycle we're in the part where someone is looking up everything these two people ever did and trying to discredit them both. I think this is a sideshow to avoid the main issues, which are first of all race, and second how we as a society decide to regulate gun-carrying.

My own main focus is with this very dangerous and questionable Florida law and its potential for facilitating and even precipitating otherwise avoidable injuries and deaths. Here's just one of a lot of reports I found:

The Tampa Bay Times found 130 cases in Florida in which Stand Your Ground was invoked. In more than 70 percent of the cases, someone was killed. But only 28 of the cases went to trial, and only 19 resulted in a guilty verdict....

Stand Your Ground "really ties law enforcement's hands," says Florida law professor Elizabeth Megale, "because immunity is defined so broadly." Immunity, she says, does not just mean you can't be prosecuted. It means you can't be detained.

"We have solved a problem with the Stand Your Ground Law that didn't exist," says [Florida State Attorney William] Meggs. "The people who are using this law are not law abiding citizens. The people who are using this law are thugs and gangs and drug dealers."


Here's an overview :
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0 ... round-law/
A 2010 review by The St. Petersburg Times found that rates of justifiable homicide tripled since the law was passed and that “twice a week, on average, someone’s killing was considered warranted."
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby rabble » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:38 am

Remember_Me wrote:This Zimmerman could be 100% guilty of a hate inspired crime. But I just don't think he's getting any kind of fair shake right now and I'd like to see the evidence against the guy before I skewer him publicly. His prior actions of doing the right thing while on patrol is noteworthy and important to me.

What I see is a 140 pound unarmed person on one side, and a 250 pound person with a gun on the other, and I think Zimmerman's unfair treatment started when the cops arrived on the scene and he's getting a slightly fairer treatment now.

When a guy that big feels the need to shoot somebody that skinny, no matter what the bloody hell the other guy is doing, I can't look at what's happening now and think anything other than "Good. This is what's supposed to happen when a guy shoots somebody. It's SUPPOSED to change your life forever."

It's too bad he's only got these regrets now instead of when he should have been thinking about it, but maybe this will have an effect on the rest of those lone rangers out there and make them think twice before they act as though they've got a hoodie hunting license.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby jman111 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:30 am

I really don't buy into the body weight discrepancy arguments.
Fighting skills are not strictly dictated by size.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby rabble » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:33 am

jman111 wrote:I really don't buy into the body weight discrepancy arguments.
Fighting skills are not strictly dictated by size.

I don't in this case, but we can go with that.

What sort of fighting skills discrepancy would you expect between a high school student and neighborhood watch veteran with aspirations of joining law enforcement?
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby jman111 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:46 am

rabble wrote:What sort of fighting skills discrepancy would you expect between a high school student and neighborhood watch veteran with aspirations of joining law enforcement?

I suspect there is entirely too much variation in those two categories to make any accurate prediction. There are far too many other issues in this case for me to get upset about the disparity in bodies.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby rabble » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:16 pm

jman111 wrote:
rabble wrote:What sort of fighting skills discrepancy would you expect between a high school student and neighborhood watch veteran with aspirations of joining law enforcement?

I suspect there is entirely too much variation in those two categories to make any accurate prediction. There are far too many other issues in this case for me to get upset about the disparity in bodies.

Okay, if you think it's too much of a stretch to think a 140 pound high school student might not be evenly matched against a 250 pound guy in his twenties who's been trying out for law enforcement, that's fine.

So, this guy is following a kid half his size, and stops to read a street sign which gives the kid enough time to whack the crap out of him with his bare hands, so badly that his only recourse is to pull his gun and shoot him.

Lots of complicated issues running around there. I'm looking forward to finding out what sort of blunt instrument the kid was using. My money's on the iced tea. You'd need more skittles than one bag for a good swing.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby jman111 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:48 pm

rabble wrote:Okay, if you think it's too much of a stretch to think a 140 pound high school student might not be evenly matched against a 250 pound guy in his twenties who's been trying out for law enforcement, that's fine.

Ever hear of a wanna-be? Does that term provoke any images? I suspect you are discounting the strong possibility that those who aspire to law enforcement may sometimes be the least suited, both mentally AND physically.
Look, I've personally seen featherweights beat the crap out of heavyweights. I just don't see the importance of dwelling on the size discrepancy here- there is just so much more to the story.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:43 pm

I think there are only two things to look at right now: Zimmerman stalking Martin & Who initiated first contact. Unless there are corroborating witnesses, we may never know what happened.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Remember_Me » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:43 pm

I hear him say "Fucking punks". Not "coons".

Really, what 28 year old dude says coons anymore anyway?

Listen yourself.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby lukpac » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:49 am

Remember_Me wrote:Really, what 28 year old dude says coons anymore anyway?


A racist one.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Remember_Me » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:07 am

Naw, if you're a racist 28 year old dude these days you're not messing with fluff like coons or spooks.

You're goin' right for the gold with the N-word.

Don't you read the comments on news stories these days?
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby snoqueen » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:15 am

I didn't realize it until now (maybe I'm the only one) but in the Wisconsin case victim Morrison was also black.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... 1f8c2.html

He'd just joined the Marines, too.
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby rabble » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:44 pm

A surveillance video of Zimmerman as he's taken into police headquarters shows a remarkably clean head and nose for guy who got his nose broken and his head clonked on the sidewalk.

Granted it's pretty grainy but damn, it sure looks like the cops cleaned him up pretty good between the time they found him and when he's walking into the station in handcuffs.
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