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The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:40 pm

Why are you minimizing the failure to collect evidence that is normally collected in every other homicide case?

What is your agenda?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby snoqueen » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:54 pm

This author might be able to shed some light on your questions:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/we ... 91745.html

The lead sentence:

Is the new racism denying racism?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Igor » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:01 pm

snoqueen wrote:This author might be able to shed some light on your questions:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/we ... 91745.html

The lead sentence:

Is the new racism denying racism?


His points are fair, but he does not extrapolate enough. His contention is that if the shooter is black and the victim is white, the shooter is in jail. What the author is missing is, had that been the situation, nobody would be calling the shooting race-related.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:44 am

Igor wrote:His contention is that if the shooter is black and the victim is white, the shooter is in jail. What the author is missing is, had that been the situation, nobody would be calling the shooting race-related.


Not sure if that's a fair assessment. When a large number of black youth started attacking State Fair attendees last summer, it was definitely labeled race related.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby DCB » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:54 am

Igor wrote:
snoqueen wrote:This author might be able to shed some light on your questions:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/we ... 91745.html

The lead sentence:

Is the new racism denying racism?


His points are fair, but he does not extrapolate enough. His contention is that if the shooter is black and the victim is white, the shooter is in jail. What the author is missing is, had that been the situation, nobody would be calling the shooting race-related.

That depends on whether there are actual racial elements to the situation. The US has a long history of racial bias, particularly in the South. I think Florida has the distinction of the most lynchings in the country.

In the current situation, it seems plausible (but not proven) that Zimmerman was racially motivated, given the lack of any other motivation.

Also, when the killer uses a racial epithet, it seems reasonable to conclude that racism is partly to blame:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 05,00.html
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Igor » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:18 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Igor wrote:His contention is that if the shooter is black and the victim is white, the shooter is in jail. What the author is missing is, had that been the situation, nobody would be calling the shooting race-related.


Not sure if that's a fair assessment. When a large number of black youth started attacking State Fair attendees last summer, it was definitely labeled race related.


Agreed - that was portrayed as such when it was discovered that the perpetrators were singling out white victims. I don't recall that the coverage was as extensive, nor that there were extended rallies about it. Admittedly, nobody was killed in that situation.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:32 am

there were a few small rally/town hall type things after it happened, but all local to Milwaukee. Probably wouldn't have even gone that far if there hadn't been a few smaller but similar incidents earlier in the summer.
About the biggest thing that came out of the State Fair attacks was the KKK holding a rally to protect white people in down town West Allis that I believe had to be held in a fenced off area to protect them from 10 times as many counter protesters.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby snoqueen » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:41 am

But the main thing about rallies is they're held to protest police coverups or inaction. We don't know what the police response would have been at the Fairgrounds if a white person had been killed by the white-targeting black kids. We do know what the police response has been in Florida.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:01 am

True, we don't know what the response would have been to someone being killed, but given how state and local law enforcement did respond (highly increased police presence, curfew for minors, investigated the possibility of hate crime charges) we can probably extrapolate a little.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby rabble » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:01 pm

Two attorneys for George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed an unarmed black teenager, stepped down as his lawyers on Tuesday after saying they had lost contact with him and that he was no longer in Florida.
Lawyers Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig said they had not heard from Zimmerman since Sunday and expressed concern about his mental and physical health. They said he had taken several recent actions without their advice, including calling a special prosecutor in the case and a television journalist.

"We have lost contact with him," Sonner told a news conference outside the Seminole County Courthouse in Sanford, Florida, the town where 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot.

"He's gone on his own. I'm not sure what he's doing and who he's talking to," he said.


They're sticking to the self defense defense but since their client has apparently gone crazy and run off, they've stepped down till somebody finds him.

Sounds like he's going through hell.

Good. I hope every gun totin' wannabe regulator out there takes a lesson from it. Won't happen cause most of 'em are thinking they'll do it right when they get their shot at the hoodie, but maybe some of them will think twice.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby gargantua » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:37 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Why are you minimizing the failure to collect evidence that is normally collected in every other homicide case?

What is your agenda?


I see the person you're posing the question to has left for awhile. Having read the thread, my take on what the poster was trying to say is a little more charitable than yours seems to be.

He or she wasn't excusing the failure to collect evidence....it is so clearly inexcusable that it isn't debatable. The poster was arguing that the nature of the incident was such that serious charges wouldn't stick even if the evidence had been collected. I don't buy that, because how can you know unless you actually, you know, have all the evidence? I don't think the poster had a particular agenda other than to argue over whether or not a case can be proven. Police failure of due diligence certainly doesn't help.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby rabble » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:56 pm

Second degree murder charges.

I'm satisfied. They almost got it swept under the rug but it's out.

Maybe this will put a little fear of the lord into a few cops and gunslingers.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Igor » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:32 pm

rabble wrote:Second degree murder charges.

I'm satisfied. They almost got it swept under the rug but it's out.

Maybe this will put a little fear of the lord into a few cops and gunslingers.


Seems fair to me. If we can put fear into the cops, gunslingers, *and* the crooks, we will be all set.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby rabble » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:56 pm

Igor wrote:
rabble wrote:Second degree murder charges.

I'm satisfied. They almost got it swept under the rug but it's out.

Maybe this will put a little fear of the lord into a few cops and gunslingers.


Seems fair to me. If we can put fear into the cops, gunslingers, *and* the crooks, we will be all set.

You mean, when the cops and gunslingers are actually dealing with crooks and not kids with candy, right?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Igor » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:38 am

rabble wrote:
Igor wrote:
rabble wrote:Second degree murder charges.

I'm satisfied. They almost got it swept under the rug but it's out.

Maybe this will put a little fear of the lord into a few cops and gunslingers.


Seems fair to me. If we can put fear into the cops, gunslingers, *and* the crooks, we will be all set.

You mean, when the cops and gunslingers are actually dealing with crooks and not kids with candy, right?


Most likely Zimmerman is going to jail, which I think is fair. I indicated that above.

I am curious - who do you think kills more kids with candy - Cops, gunslingers, or crooks?
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