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What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:24 pm

wack wack wrote:
Huckleby wrote:"your momma fucks goats" jokes are not a real criticism of your mom, sluts or motherhood. They do not excuse or promote hatred towards women.


Perhaps not, but they sure do broadcast it.

Sorry, but I don't see anything remotely hateful towards women in such a joke.
I grant you that it is offensive, but attaching that word "mysogenistic" is a false and unnecessary rationalization for a feeling of disgust.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:29 pm

It was not in the least funny. It disgusted me and I consider talking about women that way to be hateful. Telling a joke similar to that one about gay people would be hate speech without a doubt. If you were someone I knew in 3-D I would avoid you in the future after hearing you repeat a joke like that.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:41 pm

snoqueen wrote:I consider talking about women that way to be hateful.
Is the joke talking about women as a class? Or does it even reflect on the nature of women?

snoqueen wrote: Telling a joke similar to that one about gay people would be hate speech without a doubt.

It would be tasteless and politically incorect. But "hate speech"?

snoqueen wrote:If you were someone I knew in 3-D I would avoid you in the future after hearing you repeat a joke like that.
Are you attacking Henry Vilas for posting the joke? I know Henry Vilas and can vouch for his fine manners and high moral standing - you are out of line.

(If you are referring to me you are wrong on the details, but correct in your instincts. You would certainly find me disturbing to your sensibilities.)
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:17 pm

Vilas posted it as part of a report about a judge's emailing the thing, and expressed displeasure at the judge's behavior.

You proceeded to deconstruct the joke and explain why you thought it was not racist or sexist.

I said if you told that joke (as the judge told the joke) I would consider it hate speech, being offended as were many other people upon hearing it. I'm not only person to hold this opinion, since it was the whole point of discussing this judge in the first place: his total disregard or contempt for two classes of people who regularly appear before his court.

I am not explaining any further because reasoning with you is a waste of time and pixels.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:26 pm

snoqueen wrote:I am not explaining any further because reasoning with you is a waste of time and pixels.

I see. that is hate speech!
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:53 am

Huckleby wrote:
snoqueen wrote:I am not explaining any further because reasoning with you is a waste of time and pixels.

I see. that is hate speech!

Now you are just trolling.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby wack wack » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:43 am

Huckleby wrote:
wack wack wrote:
Huckleby wrote:"your momma fucks goats" jokes are not a real criticism of your mom, sluts or motherhood. They do not excuse or promote hatred towards women.


Perhaps not, but they sure do broadcast it.

Sorry, but I don't see anything remotely hateful towards women in such a joke.
I grant you that it is offensive, but attaching that word "mysogenistic" is a false and unnecessary rationalization for a feeling of disgust.


Rationalization? You're trying to accuse others of rationalization? Your minimization of the negative nature of the "joke" borders on sociopathy, but others are rationalizing? GMaMFB.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:32 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Now you are just trolling.

responding to a personal insult with wit is trolling?

you're a real King Solomon with the even-handedness
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby rabble » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:50 am

Huckleby wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Now you are just trolling.

responding to a personal insult with wit is trolling?

you're a real King Solomon with the even-handedness

I don't know if you're being facetious or not, Huck but if you're not it does help me believe that you're actually being truthful when you claim that you don't see the misogyny and racism in that joke.

If so, then Sno's comment wasn't really an insult. It just doesn't help anything to argue with a blind person about something that requires sight. If you can't see it, you can't see it and no amount of explanation is going to help.

The best we could hope for is to convince you that most women and most people of color do see it and whether you do or not, for whatever reasons, you aren't going to remove that insult by explaining how they shouldn't feel that way.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:56 am

wack wack wrote: Your minimization of the negative nature of the "joke" borders on sociopathy


the bar has been raised. A sick joke is now "sociopathy". I didn't make or appreciate this sick joke, but my tolerance on of it is entering sociopathic territory.

Every comedian from Lenny Bruce to George Carlin to Wanda Sykes to Sarah Silverman to Jimmy Kimmell to Lisa Lampanelli to Howard Stern to Bill Maher are now sociopaths.

The politically correct - and I include Henry Vilas, SnoQueen and wack-wack in the absolute pantheon of doctrinaire correctness - respond to upsetting remarks with demonizing name calling. A joke with a woman character in it is "mysogneny." Snoqueen dismisses me in anger, and Vilas calls me a troll for my sarcastic comeback.
A dirty, offensive joke about beastiality and somebody mother is hate speech.

This sort of labeling is striking back in anger because somebody's joke offends you. Nothing wrong with being offended, but your feelings don't necessarily make another person mean or hateful or "sociopathic."

I like Ann Coulter and Bill Maher and Howard Stern's offensive humor, at least half the time, anyway. I am willing to tolerate the other half of the time.

I have my personal standards of when a joke crosses a line: when it is intended to make some person or group of people feel bad about themselves. I don't care if makes a million people feel sour in the stomach because the joke is icky or crude.
There is a lot of subtlety to what I'm saying. Depending on who is saying a joke, and in what context, I might be OK with an ethnic joke. Yet a joke that demeans poor people, or people with eating disorders, in a way that would make such a person feel badly about themselves, that would be crossing my line.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:03 am

rabble wrote: The best we could hope for is to convince you that most women and most people of color do see it and whether you do or not, for whatever reasons, you aren't going to remove that insult by explaining how they shouldn't feel that way.

Easy on the "we", much more impressive when you speak for yourself.

I never suggested anyone should not "feel that way." I totally accept that people are soured or offended by a joke. But that alone does not make the joke hateful.

I did backtrack on the racist question. I said I did not initially see that there was an angle meant to demean black people, but later saw error of my ways and conceded that point.

I'm telling you, tho, as an experiment, I posted that joke in a forum that is more conservative than this gab fest, and not a single person saw the joke as in any way racist. So your characterizing me as "blind" really amounts to your inability to see that other people have different points of view and sensibilities.
Last edited by Huckleby on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:07 am

So conservatives don't see the racism in that joke. What does that say about you?
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:15 am

Henry Vilas wrote:So conservatives don't see the racism in that joke. What does that say about you?


This particular forum is the mirror image of my bizzarro world forum: about 85% conservative, 15% liberal. The liberals there, of which I am one, did not catch the racist angle.

I'll speak for myself: I did not see the racist angle because I am reflexively forgiving and accepting of others. I tend to see the good in people, and assume the best until they prove otherwise. I assume that people are not racist (in an aggressive sense, we all are latent racists to a degree.) I am not quick to make judgements that others are being hateful. This joke slipped through my generous and tolerant filter.

You pointed out that I missed it, and I agreed. I've done the time for my crime.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby rabble » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:20 pm

Huckleby wrote:Easy on the "we", much more impressive when you speak for yourself.

Oh, fuck you. We think you're an obtuse ass.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:28 pm

rabble wrote:Oh, fuck you. We think you're an obtuse ass.


sharp wit, there.

IMO, it is lame to lean-on the crutch of the majority to beat-down a vexing minority opinion. In other words, grow a pair, friend.
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