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The gun thread

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun May 20, 2012 9:45 am

Are you a Brewers fan? They have been playing during the TV cablecasts of their games the last couple days. The ad shows a hunter in blaze orange with a long gun and the gun disappears while the voice-over says that will happen if Barrett is elected. Can't remember the exact wording, but the NRA is definitely stating/implying that Barrett will do sometime to take away firearms.

But quibble over the wording, if you must. In either case, whomever is Wisconsin's governor has no such power. The ad is a lie.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun May 20, 2012 11:29 am

NRA = Natty Rectal Activators
NRA = Nonsensical Redneck Association
NRA = Nothing Rational Allowed
Last edited by jonnygothispen on Sun May 20, 2012 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby bdog » Sun May 20, 2012 11:37 am

Henry the link you provided details how Governor Doyle vetoed a concealed carry bill so clearly the Governor has a big say in gun control issues.

Provide the exact quote from the commercial and we can talk about if it was a lie or not.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun May 20, 2012 12:03 pm

bdog wrote:Henry the link you provided details how Governor Doyle vetoed a concealed carry bill so clearly the Governor has a big say in gun control issues.

Provide the exact quote from the commercial and we can talk about if it was a lie or not.

Like I said, it's a TV ad. I don't have the transcript. And it showed a hunter's firearm disappearing. Considering the Wisconsin Constitution's amendment guaranteeing an explicit right to hunt, there is no way any governor could abridge that right.

Again, the NRA is lying.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun May 20, 2012 12:16 pm

Found the NRA anti-Barrett ad. Here.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Sun May 20, 2012 1:41 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Found the NRA anti-Barrett ad. Here.


Thanks for finding the ad. I would say the ad is a simplification, but not a lie. The gun disappearing was a representation of gun rights disappearing. (Just like the frying egg was a representation of "your brain." It's symbolic, not literal.)

It's not a lie because it doesn't make any explicit claims. The ad does not specifically say "the right to hunt" or the "right to own a gun" will be removed. It just provides a warning to not let Barrett try to erode "gun rights" by electing him. The protections given to our rights-- of any kind-- are subject to change. They can be strengthened or weakened.

But it's a simplification, because a governor acting alone is limited in what they can do. But they certainly can wield a considerable amount of influence to make sweeping changes. And if you don't believe that, then just recall (no pun) the whole Walker thing that's been in the news a time or two.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Sun May 20, 2012 1:59 pm

I forgot to add that on the link you provided, under picture of "Bad Barrett" I think there is an error when it says "[Barrett]... believes Wisconsinites are less trustworthy than residents of 49 other states."

I think it ought to read "48 other states" because arguably Barrett thinks Wisconsinites are equally trustworthy to Illionoisians and that the residents of those two states are less trustworthy than the remaining 48.

Although realistically there are at least a couple of the remaining 48 states that have provisions for concealed carry but in practice issue few or nearly zero permits. So the residents of say, Hawaii or Maryland, are apparently particularly untrustworthy in someone's eyes.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Sun May 20, 2012 2:02 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:NRA = Natty Rectal Activators
NRA = Nonsensical Redneck Association
NRA = Nothing Rational Allowed


jonny I heard that you were a founder of another NRA, i.e., "No Real Arguments"
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Re: The gun thread

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun May 20, 2012 2:34 pm

lie
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. to express what is false; convey a false impression.

The ad is a lie. It shows a gun vanishing from a hunter's hands. It gives the false and deceptive impression that electing Tom Barret will result in a gun vanishing from a hunter's hands. And even if it was "Symbolic," as you suggest, when has any democrat anywhere threatened to take away any hunting rights ever? Has Tom Barrett ever made any such statement? The impression of a hunter having his gun taken away is of itself a false statement.

This ad is designed to deceive and mislead by making a false "symbolic" statement of a gun disappearing from a hunter's hands when this has never been even suggested anywhere, let alone by Tom Barrett. It's an absurd lie.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Sun May 20, 2012 8:14 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:lie
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. to express what is false; convey a false impression.

The ad is a lie. It shows a gun vanishing from a hunter's hands. It gives the false and deceptive impression that electing Tom Barret will result in a gun vanishing from a hunter's hands. And even if it was "Symbolic," as you suggest, when has any democrat anywhere threatened to take away any hunting rights ever?


Threatened? Or advocated?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun May 20, 2012 8:21 pm

"I close my eyes, only for a moment and the moment's gone, Same Old song, Just a drop of water in an endless sea, Palm trees at the Capitol, all we are is Palm trees at the Capitol..."
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Sun May 20, 2012 8:40 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote: It gives the false and deceptive impression that electing Tom Barret will result in a gun vanishing from a hunter's hands. And even if it was "Symbolic," as you suggest, when has any democrat anywhere threatened to take away any hunting rights ever?


Threatened? Or advocated?

Its probably true that Barrett would not pander to the shoot-anything-that-moves crowd the way that Walker has, but run-of-the-mill hunters have nothing to worry about.

Look, you could say that "if Barrett is elected, Wisconsin might be wiped out by an asteroid". Technically true, but clearly a lie in its intent.

The NRA is just fear-mongering, because they know that motivates their base.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Sun May 20, 2012 9:57 pm

Get real.

If we took away hunters' guns, the deer would be so thick every road in this state would be undriveable at normal speeds within four or five years. You'd have deer jumping all over, deer eating every piece of landscaping in towns and cities both, and no underbrush at all for six feet or more off the ground, destroying habitat for other wildlife and causing major erosion problems in every watershed in the state. We'd have even more ticks than we do now, and other disease vectors would proliferate in unpredictable ways.

Nobody's crazy enough to do that regardless of what political party they're from. I'm serious. And no one knows that better than the hunters, so if you think about it the ad is such a crock it isn't worth airing.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon May 21, 2012 12:40 am

DCB wrote:Look, you could say that "if Barrett is elected, Wisconsin might be wiped out by an asteroid". Technically true, but clearly a lie in its intent.


Yes, but Barrett doesn't have a legislative record and history of public statements indicating how he tends to view matters related to asteroids. Regarding his view of firearms, ahem...
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon May 21, 2012 12:42 am

snoqueen wrote:Nobody's crazy enough to do that regardless of what political party they're from. I'm serious.


Nobody? PETA?
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