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The gun thread

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon May 21, 2012 1:06 am

jonnygothispen wrote:lie
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. to express what is false; convey a false impression.


Jonny, do you want some clear cut examples of lies?

How about when one of the founders of Handgun Control Inc. (which was renamed the Brady Campaign) wrote that they would NEVER advocate or support banning long guns because they are not concealable like handguns? Clearly a lie, since they absolutely supported the Clinton's so-called "assault weapons" ban.

And how about the lie that the Brady Campaign had on their website for a number of years claiming that nobody needed a "high capacity magazine" because "hunting with a gun that holds more than three rounds is prohibited in every state?" An eleven year-old with Internet access could disprove that claim in under 5 minutes. (Only a small handful of states have any sort of limit on the number of rounds that can be in a gun while hunting. Even after the falsehood was pointed out to the Brady Campaign they continued to run the lie for a number of years.)
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon May 21, 2012 9:02 am

We are talking about the NRA's lies concerning hunting, but DMan would like to change the topic. I wonder what the NRA thinks about this Walker appointee?

According to Wisconsin’s White-Tailed Deer Trustee Dr. James Kroll, people who call for more public hunting opportunities are “pining for socialism.” He further states, “(Public) Game management is the last bastion of communism.”

Thanks to Detritus for the link.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Mon May 21, 2012 9:17 am

Dangerousman wrote:
DCB wrote:Look, you could say that "if Barrett is elected, Wisconsin might be wiped out by an asteroid". Technically true, but clearly a lie in its intent.


Yes, but Barrett doesn't have a legislative record and history of public statements indicating how he tends to view matters related to asteroids. Regarding his view of firearms, ahem...

OK, what are his views on firearms?

I'm guessing you got nothin'.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Mon May 21, 2012 9:47 am

Dangerousman wrote: Regarding his view of firearms, ahem...

So I went to see what I could find on Barrett's views on firearms, and I came across this:
In an op-ed appearing in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Luntz and Barrett support their striking conclusion by citing Luntz’s survey for Mayors Against Illegal Guns, of which Barrett is a member, showing strong support among gun owners, and even among NRA members, for measures to strengthen our gun laws.

....

talking about guns as a “cultural” issue is a way of framing the issue that is highly beneficial to the NRA. The core of the gun lobby’s strategy is to use fear tactics to keep gun owners in a constant state of agitation so that they can be activated to oppose even modest gun law reforms. The NRA needs gun owners to believe that the debate is not “really about” such reforms as background checks at gun shows, but rather is about a sustained attack on a personal possession that has great practical and symbolic significance for millions of Americans and is, ultimately, about the values of those gun-owning Americans.

http://blog.bradycampaign.org/?p=1734&s=1

Nothing about hunting, though. I'm going to go with "Pants on fire" for that NRA ad.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon May 21, 2012 3:14 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote:lie
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. to express what is false; convey a false impression.


Jonny, do you want some clear cut examples of lies?

How about when one of the founders of Handgun Control Inc. (which was renamed the Brady Campaign) wrote that they would NEVER advocate or support banning long guns because they are not concealable like handguns? Clearly a lie, since they absolutely supported the Clinton's so-called "assault weapons" ban.

And how about the lie that the Brady Campaign had on their website for a number of years claiming that nobody needed a "high capacity magazine" because "hunting with a gun that holds more than three rounds is prohibited in every state?" An eleven year-old with Internet access could disprove that claim in under 5 minutes. (Only a small handful of states have any sort of limit on the number of rounds that can be in a gun while hunting. Even after the falsehood was pointed out to the Brady Campaign they continued to run the lie for a number of years.)
That's grasping at straws.
1) An assault weapon has no practical use for hunting.
2) A mistaken comment is not a lie, and even if it wasn't corrected, it has no function.
3) None of them have anything to do with Tom Barrett or the NRA's blatant lie that hunters guns will be taken away.

you seem to live in a state of self induced fear.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby fisticuffs » Mon May 21, 2012 3:17 pm

you seem to live in a state of self induced fear.


Dangerman has plenty of help. The NRA, Fox News, Zombie movies...
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Mon May 21, 2012 3:53 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
you seem to live in a state of self induced fear.


Dangerman has plenty of help. The NRA, Fox News, Zombie movies...

Why doesn't Barrett openly support hunting Zombies? Is he pandering to the living dead?

The people demand an answer.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon May 21, 2012 4:03 pm

DCB wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:
DCB wrote:Look, you could say that "if Barrett is elected, Wisconsin might be wiped out by an asteroid". Technically true, but clearly a lie in its intent.


Yes, but Barrett doesn't have a legislative record and history of public statements indicating how he tends to view matters related to asteroids. Regarding his view of firearms, ahem...

OK, what are his views on firearms?

I'm guessing you got nothin'.


Nothin' eh? Well he's on record as opposing both open carry and concealed carry. So, if he was talking 1st Amendment rights instead of 2nd Amendment rights his position would be like saying "you have the right to free speech, as long as it's done in your home." In other words, not much of a right at all. Barrett supports "assault weapons" bans, which seeks to ban ownership of all sorts of guns. Barrett buys into the "only sporting use is the only legitimate use of a gun" nonsense. Shall I continue?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon May 21, 2012 4:26 pm

Dangerousman wrote:Barrett buys into the "only sporting use is the only legitimate use of a gun" nonsense. Shall I continue?

Why don't you continue on the topic of the NRA anti-Barrett ad, as it clearly implies that Barrett is against the sporting use of firearms? Quit dancing around that blatant lie.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon May 21, 2012 4:31 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:Barrett buys into the "only sporting use is the only legitimate use of a gun" nonsense. Shall I continue?

Why don't you continue on the topic of the NRA anti-Barrett ad, as it clearly implies that Barrett is against the sporting use of firearms? Quit dancing around that blatant lie.


How can it be a "blatant lie" when the ad only says "gun rights." It never specifies hunting. I guess you'd have to consider the anti-Walker "rock star" ad to be a blatant lie too. Right?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon May 21, 2012 4:41 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:
That's grasping at straws.
1) An assault weapon has no practical use for hunting.
2) A mistaken comment is not a lie, and even if it wasn't corrected, it has no function.
3) None of them have anything to do with Tom Barrett or the NRA's blatant lie that hunters guns will be taken away.

you seem to live in a state of self induced fear.[/quote]

1) You're right, an assault weapon has not practical use for hunting, so the Brady Campaign lies when it implies that there is no (other) practical use for such a weapon.
2) The Brady Campaign's comment that every state bans the use of firearms that hold more than three rounds was no "mistaken comment." It was lie, and an easily refuted lie that they did not bother to correct because truth is unimportant to them and pushing their agenda is everything to them.
3) Point out where the NRA's ad "blatantly" says anything about hunters' guns. You do understand the meaning of the word "blatant" do you not, i.e. "completely lacking in subtlety?" IF it's a lie at all, it is subtle because one is required to infer from the video that the NRA means "hunting guns" or "hunting rights" when it says explicitly says "gun rights."
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon May 21, 2012 4:42 pm

Yes D-Man, we know you aren't going to vote for Barrett and that you are a Second Amendment absolutist. But when the video shows a hunting rifle (or is it a shotgun, as I'm sure you know) disappearing from someone in blaze orange while the voice-over claims that Barrett will take away your gun rights, your denial looks pathetic.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon May 21, 2012 4:45 pm

Here's a refresher course for those of you who need to see an example of a blatant lie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD7cEEKbyic
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Mon May 21, 2012 4:57 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Yes D-Man, we know you aren't going to vote for Barrett and that you are a Second Amendment absolutist. But when the video shows a hunting rifle (or is it a shotgun, as I'm sure you know) disappearing from someone in blaze orange while the voice-over claims that Barrett will take away your gun rights, your denial looks pathetic.


And if the guy in the video had been holding a balloon that popped would you be claiming that the NRA says Tom Barrett is threatening to take away our balloons? Are you that simple minded?

The fact is that Tom Barrett is not a friend of gun rights, never has been, probably never will be. He buddies up with other anti-gun people like Bloomberg and Milwaukee Police Chief Neidermeyer, er, excuse me... Flynn.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon May 21, 2012 5:06 pm

Dangerousman wrote:And if the guy in the video had been holding a balloon that popped would you be claiming that the NRA says Tom Barrett is threatening to take away our balloons?

I don't think wearing blaze orange is required to hold a balloon. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
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