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The gun thread

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Re: The gun thread

Postby acereraser » Mon May 21, 2012 5:11 pm

I really mean no offense by posting this link. No foolin', it just feels relevant.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Mon May 21, 2012 5:20 pm

I can see why.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Mon May 21, 2012 5:25 pm

Dangerousman wrote: Barrett buys into the "only sporting use is the only legitimate use of a gun" nonsense.

Right - since he openly supports hunter's gun rights, the ad is a lie.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Tue May 22, 2012 12:05 am

acereraser wrote:I really mean no offense by posting this link. No foolin', it just feels relevant.


It involves a gun, so it's relevant. Too bad it doesn't identify the type of gun since guns are generally designed not to fire when dropped nowadays.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue May 22, 2012 10:04 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxk_LPmdMI

"Guns don't kill people. Stupid people with guns kill people"

And not even stupid, necessarily.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Tue May 22, 2012 10:50 am

jonnygothispen wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxk_LPmdMI

"Guns don't kill people. Stupid people with guns kill people"

And not even stupid, necessarily.


What's your point? Are you explaining why you don't carry a gun?

I agree. Stupidity is a problem. Sometimes people are killed accidentally.

But sometimes people are shot justifiably.

As the Darwin Awards recognize there's never a shortage of methods or tools available for stupid people. Stupid people die from inhaling paint too. Doesn't make paint a bad thing.

Stupid people write stupid things on online forums too. But you don't make the idea of an online forum a bad thing.

People have died because stupid people have made "gun free zones" that have only a posted sign-- and sometimes not even a sign-- to stop the guns from entering.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby wack wack » Tue May 22, 2012 10:54 am

Dangerousman wrote:What's your point? Are you explaining why you don't carry a gun?

I agree. Stupidity is a problem. Sometimes people are killed accidentally.

But sometimes people are shot justifiably.


Which happens more? On an annual basis, which is most prevalent: justifiable shootings, intentional but non-justifiable shootings, or accidental shootings?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Tue May 22, 2012 11:08 am

wack wack wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:What's your point? Are you explaining why you don't carry a gun?

I agree. Stupidity is a problem. Sometimes people are killed accidentally.

But sometimes people are shot justifiably.


Which happens more? On an annual basis, which is most prevalent: justifiable shootings, intentional but non-justifiable shootings, or accidental shootings?


Probably non-justifiable shootings. In justifiable situations guns are more often used as a threat and don't need to be fired because the bad guy runs or surrenders. That undoubtedly happens far more often than actually needing to pull the trigger. But also undoubtedly criminals use their guns as a threat more often than resorting to shooting them too. Just look locally, the number of robberies involving a gun greatly outnumbers the actual shootings.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Tue May 22, 2012 11:21 am

jonnygothispen wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxk_LPmdMI

"Guns don't kill people. Stupid people with guns kill people"

And not even stupid, necessarily.


Which is why you insist that only "well-trained and highly qualified" people should carry a gun, right jonny? Like this ATF agent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uADb3NyYlSA

Or the former Madison Chief of Police:

"Madison, Wisconsin's police chief, Richard Williams, forgot he had a gun in the oven. Then he decided to roast some turkey. "Shortly thereafter - BOOM!" police spokeswoman Jeana Kerr said. Williams was given a voluntary one-day, unpaid suspension for violating his department's firearms policy. He said the oven is one of his hiding places."

... or the once-upon-a-time-Captain-in-charge-of-training for the Madison PD, Cheri Maples, whose gun discharged inside the MPD locker room.

Do you want more?

Gun safety rules can be summed up in three sentences:

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

They don't require a lot of training. One's attitude towards safety is what is important because all the training in the world can't give a person the proper attitude. That's something each person has to have on his or her own.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue May 22, 2012 11:56 am

I understood your point a long time ago: The safety of the people is irrelevant when NRA dogma teaches you to ignore the only reason the 2nd amendment exists so you can have easy access to guns and ammo.

When your point is so amazingly devoid of logic that it defies what any reasonable person would think, how is it that you expect anyone to even respond to it?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue May 22, 2012 12:03 pm

If only more upright citizens had guns near Johnny O's last weekend, that shooting would have been prevented (or immediately avenged). More guns on the street is the answer.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Tue May 22, 2012 12:19 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:When your point is so amazingly devoid of logic that it defies what any reasonable person would think, how is it that you expect anyone to even respond to it?


You're hardly the one I would go to to discover what reasonable people would think, but okay, as the self-appointed arbiter of what is "reasonable"--tell us what you think reasonable people would think.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Tue May 22, 2012 12:34 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:If only more upright citizens had guns near Johnny O's last weekend, that shooting would have been prevented (or immediately avenged). More guns on the street is the answer.


There's no way of knowing if it would have changed things. Maybe, maybe not. Is there supposed to be something persuasive in your post, or were you just looking for an outlet for your sarcasm and disdain? (The verbal equivalent of "making a face.")

I will point out that the city apparently agrees with you, since they've requested money to put "more guns on the street" in response to this incident.

"Soglin said he would ask Madison's Common Council for an additional $50,000 to fund more weekend police patrols, plus endorse efforts to limit loitering and ban panhandling downtown and near licensed liquor establishments."

http://www.channel3000.com/news/Police- ... index.html
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue May 22, 2012 12:45 pm

The "more guns" are police, whom you seem to distain. You've posted more than once that you need to be well armed since it takes a while for the cops to respond to the situations that you would rather deal with yourself.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Tue May 22, 2012 1:29 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:The "more guns" are police, whom you seem to distain. You've posted more than once that you need to be well armed since it takes a while for the cops to respond to the situations that you would rather deal with yourself.


I can see you weren't a math or physics teacher. It's pretty difficult to imaginatively rewrite math or physics without somebody noticing. Not so much with History-- a subtle word change here or there and voila, everything can be made to look so differently.

"Distain?" I am quite certain that I have never caused a discoloration of the police. I do not give tattoos. If you meant "disdain" then you better have something to back that up. Good luck with that.

That it takes a while--and sometimes too long-- for the police to arrive is merely a fact. The police are the first to admit they cannot be everywhere at once nor can they arrive immediately to every call. That is not their fault, it is simple math and physics. It is hardly showing "disdain" for the police, it is accepting reality. The police accept it, I accept it. You ought to give it a try.

You're imaginatively creating things again when you claim that I would prefer to "deal with" situations myself. It is hardly a matter of preference, but a matter of recognizing that-- given the reality of the math and physics-- one could have little choice about having to "deal with situations." Why do we have police and firefighters and EMS professionals? Because we prefer not to have to do the dirty work. I don't want to apprehend criminals, I don't want to pull torn bodies out of car wrecks and stop their bleeding, and I don't want to use my garden hose to put fight a house fire. But does that mean I would never do those things or refuse to do them? Does it mean I have no business doing them? Does it mean there could never be a situation where the professionals wouldn't conveniently be there to do it for me? Does it mean I should sit back and do nothing while something bad happens because we pay other people do deal with bad things? Is that the high road you encourage people to take?

Are you afraid to get involved? Are you too lazy? Do you think the police would complain that some amateur is taking away work that is rightfully theirs? What is it?
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