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New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

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Re: New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:35 pm

The rural poor (many elderly among them) are a forgotten group. They often depend on Meals on Wheels. MVD offices are few and far between, some only open for a short time once a month. They could easily vote absentee, but they lack possession of certain types of government issued identification (which they find difficult to obtain.) All because of the unfounded fear of massive voter fraud.
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Re: New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:51 pm

Rich Schultz wrote:Henry the V, are you comfortable with the cemetery vote in Chicago?

If we want to talk about voter suppression/fraud in other states, then what about Jim Crow laws throughout the South? The Voter Rights Act of 1965 is still in force and Voter ID laws in Texas and South Carolina (both similar to Wisconsin's) have been overturned in federal court.
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Re: New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

Postby Dangerousman » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:18 pm

Henry Vilas wrote: Voter ID laws in Texas and South Carolina (both similar to Wisconsin's) have been overturned in federal court.


Oh really? The last I heard the Obama administration is not a federal court. For undoubtedly political purposes, the US DOJ blocked implementing the voter id laws in those states because TX and SC are 2 of the 16 states that need federal approval (preclearance) to change their voting laws. This forces those states to go to court to overturn the DOJ's order. The laws haven't been overturned. Maybe they will be, and maybe they won't, but they haven't been overturned yet, only blocked.

Wisconsin is not one of the states that the federal government can block under the Voting Rights Act.
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Re: New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:27 pm

Dangerousman wrote:Wisconsin is not one of the states that the federal government can block under the Voting Rights Act.

Never said it was. I'm sure that entered into Walker's calculus. But both state and federal court actions are underway in Wisconsin. So far only injunctions have been ordered. Higher courts have yet to hear appeals. And federal courts trump states on this constitutional issue.
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Re: New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

Postby Dangerousman » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:12 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:Wisconsin is not one of the states that the federal government can block under the Voting Rights Act.

Never said it was. I'm sure that entered into Walker's calculus. But both state and federal court actions are underway in Wisconsin. So far only injunctions have been ordered. Higher courts have yet to hear appeals. And federal courts trump states on this constitutional issue.


Right. You simply alleged that there's a similarity between the Wisconsin law and the South Carolina and Texas laws. Putting aside for the moment your reliance upon an untrue statement about "overturned in federal court" what were you trying to imply about the Wisconsin law? You seem to think that the mere fact that such laws have been challenged in court is evidence that they are flawed or possibly unconstitutional. Whether they are is the question, not the conclusion. And as far as which courts "trump" others, the highest court, the U.S. Supreme Court, has already upheld the Indiana voter ID law-- something I suspect the lower level courts will notice.
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Re: New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:03 pm

Yes, I should have said enjoined, not overturned. And right from the start I said that the Texas and South Carolina voter ID restrictions were blocked because of the Voter Rights Act. Based on the Wisconsin Constitution, state courts have also enjoined our restrictions. And the same issue has been filed in federal court.

So far judges have said these restrictions likely violate the rights of Wisconsin voters. Trials will commence shortly, followed by appeals.

So what's your gripe again?
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Re: New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

Postby snoqueen » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:36 pm

We're getting close to consensus here, Rich. I am pleased.

Rich Schultz wrote:I've already stated I agree with Francis, Huckleby, and I assume yourself that there should be better options for obtaining an ID then the DMV.

Somewhere closer, more convenient, where the elderly, the poor and the disabled congregate, where the hours are longer and the staff friendlier. Walmart and Walgreens come to mind.


That would be fine. I also think social service agencies should be able to issue IDs that work for voting as well as whatever benefits or services the clients are coming for.

Most students without picture ID's aren't old enough to vote. In my day many of my fellow students had more than one picture ID, if you know what I mean.


We all know students have fake IDs, and supposedly fancy un-forgeable IDs are in the works. You and I both know how long those will last, of course. All this just shows the fallibility of any ID system, but I continue to believe the security of our elections doesn't rely on individual ID at all. Maybe from your perspective it's just another bit of voter misbehavior to root out.

I believe WI student IDs with pictures and addresses, or some such arrangement, were rendered acceptable in the end, leaving only the question of how long the student has to be at a certain address before he can vote. There has to be a reasonable solution to that detail. In the last election the odd date set for the recall probably screwed things up for students as much as anything else.

I also believe there were questions about tech college IDs. If people discuss this with good will I'd think a reasonable solution would emerge, once again.

That leaves the shut-ins, perhaps some humanitarian types could assist.


I agree. I was deputized to help absentee voters in assisted living at the time of the last presidential election, and if volunteers wanted to be deputized to take ID equipment to shut-ins so they could get their cards, I would hope a way could be found.

"Seems like your idea of voting rights is that for any given individual those rights are somehow optional, at the convenience of bureaucracy."


Quite the opposite, I believe voting should be optional, at the convenience of the citizen.


So do I. I have read that Australia penalizes non voters with a fine of about $15 for not voting, and while that 95% turnout sounds good, how thoughtfully are the votes cast?

Then, how thoughtfully are our votes cast? I'm not going there....

I will leave it to you big government fans to disparage the DMV.


Oh, they're doing their best just like in any other workplace these days, public or private, with not enough staffing, antiquated computers, and a surly public. What more can ya do, hey?
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Re: New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

Postby Rich Schultz » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:35 am

Thank you for a polite and rational response.
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Re: New Pro-Walker Voter Suppression

Postby Meade » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:21 am

I'm still hoping for a follow-up from Stu Levitan who once offered himself as a candidate for the office of Secretary of State of Wisconsin.
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