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Vice President Paul?

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Vice President Paul?

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:54 pm

A couple of interesting developments last week.

First Ron Paul admitted publicly that he does not have the delegates to win the nomination.

Right after that, son Rand Paul came out and endorsed Romney.

And, the great mentioner began mentioning Rand Paul as a VP candidate.

Paul does may not have enough delegates to win but he still has several hundred committed and a couple hundred more soft delegates (sort of pledged but not legally bound) Many of Romney's delegates, I've not been able to find out exactly how many, are soft and not legally bound to Romney, though they will most likely support him. Still others cannot vote for anyone other than Romney on a first ballot but do not have to vote for him either. They could abstain.

After the 1st ballot, no delegates are bound to anyone.

In other words, there is some uncertainty whether Paul could prevent Romney from getting a 1st round win.

So is this all part of a strategy? Is Paul saying "Make Rand your VP and, once you announce it, I'll withdraw in your favor." Rand's endorsement could be a token of good faith.

Or might Ron Paul be Romney's VP pick? I have been a Paulista since the mid-80s. Ran against him for president in 88, even. I wanted to seem him be the nominee this year and thought he had a shot. I would love to see him as President of the Senate/VP of the US.

I would not mind seeing Rand Paul either. As someone said, "Rand Paul is Ron without the crazy." I've never thought Ron was crazy but that is how he has always been portrayed and it is a steep hill to climb.

As I've noted before, if it is Romney and some other generic candidate from the Repo wing of the DC Party, I'm going with Obama.

If either of the Paul's in on the ticket, either top (unlikely) or bottom, I am on board 100%.

What say you all?

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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:14 pm

They're both a couple of nut jobs. I think the Romney camp is going for a more boring character.
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby snoqueen » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:44 pm

So do you think the Republican VP candidate will be picked by negotiation and vote trading among those who control delegates during the first balloting, or in a backroom deal?

I don't have a preference, I'm just wondering. The candidates with delegates represent various tendencies within the party, the backroom deal would, I imagine, mostly be Romney types trying to maximize his chances as they see them.
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:13 pm

The VP choice seldom makes or breaks an election. Palin might have been an exception, but only because she was an exceptionally poor choice. Constitutionally the VP has little or no power. Ties in Senate votes occur very rarely. While VPs have ascended to the presidency, that usually isn't in the mind of the voter in November. A Paul (father or son) nomination might be a GOTV move to get the libertarian vote. I doubt if it would shift votes from Obama to Romney though.
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby pjbogart » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:37 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:I doubt if it would shift votes from Obama to Romney though.


I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate Ron Paul. He's very popular amongst stoners and people who like to frequent prostitutes. Romney, on the other hand, doesn't even know what beer tastes like.

Paul could potentially peel off a sliver of the youth vote and in a polarized electorate a sliver might make all the difference.
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby johnfajardohenry » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:36 pm

Henry Vilas points out that Constitutionally the VP has very little power and is correct.

About the only Constitutional power the VP has is preside over the Senate as its president. No vote except in the case of a tie.

However, an activist VP, in presiding over the Senate, has several small powers that, if used, can give him/her a fair amount of power. They have the power to recognize speakers, for example. They some powers to allow/diasllow parliamentary actions. They have some powers over setting the agenda. They have some powers over the speed at which roll call votes are taken.

None of these amount to much but together they could be quite powerful.

For an example, read volume 4 of Caro's bio of LBJ "Master of the Senate". I think all would agree that as Senate Majority Leader LBJ was probably the most powerful, in terms of getting his agenda passed, of any Senator ever.

Yet when he went to the Senate in 1948, the Majority Leader position was mainly a booby prize. It had no power and few duties. The only real source of power was assigning new office spaces. LBJ took the job nobody else wanted and leveraged it and leveraged it until he had almost dictatorial powers in the Senate.

A VP who wanted to could take the limited powers of Senate President and build them into a real power base. Sarah Palin spoke to this a bit in 2008, though she was quickly shut up.

In addition to Senate powers, the VP also gets attention when they speak. Look at Joe Bumbles, always in the press for one foolish thing or another. Or Cheney, or Gore and so on. A VP Paul would always be guaranteed an audience for anything they had to say. They would especially be guaranteed an audience if it were to disagree with President Romney. The TV and press would love a catfight between Pres and VP.

Would either of the Pauls have the ability or inclination to do that? Ron Paul would certainly have the inclination. He might have the ability. Rand Paul might have the ability but not the inclination.

A VP who tried to exercise power would surely upset the DC power structure on both sides and would be a single term VP. OTOH, once a VP is elected, the president has no constitutional authority over him. Short of impeachment, there would be nothing that could be done about an activist VP who never planned on being anything in politics again.

I make no predictions about either of the Pauls becoming VP. It is just a dream I have.


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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby Detritus » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:53 pm

All I will say is that either of the Pauls--or both together, for that matter--are fully equal to Garner's estimated value of the Vice Presidency.
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby johnfajardohenry » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:57 pm

As for a VP changing minds, he would change mine, at least. There is no way I could support Romney. The only way I could would be if he had someone interesting on the ticket like a Paul and I see no other possibilities at the moment.

Absent something like that, I remain an Obama man.

What I find odd is that folks here on the forum seem to support Obama.

The Obama who murders American citizens.

The Obama who spends part of his day deciding who to drone next.

The Obama who has expanded the number of troops overseas as well as the locations where they are. (Should we really have troops in Uganda, for goodness sake?)

The Obama who continues to keep Gitmo open.

The Obama who continues to lock up huge numbers of black people under the guise of the War on Drugs

the Obama who is constantly eroding our constitutional rights. (Can you say NDAA?)

The Obama who refused to support Barrett beyond a Tweet? (While flying over twice, the day before the election. Gives a whole new meaning to "flyover country" doesn't it?)

The Obama who has kept the economy in the dumper?

The Obama who has not had a budget in 3 years?

The Obama who could not get a single Democrat or Republican to vote for his budget. Twice! (Some might say that this is bipartisanship)

and so on.

That Obama?

That is the guy you are going to support? How could Romney possibly be worse?

I support him because I am a bit Machiavellian. We, as a people, need to be pushed into revolution. We are on the right track. The Tea Party, the big turnover in 2010, the repos and demmies who have declined to run again, the rise of liberalism (or libertarianism) as something respectable. The debacle with the unions in Wisconsin. The debacle with Walker/Barrett in WI.

And so on.

Worse is better. Perhaps we need 4 more years of pain to finally see the light.

Romney will just put us back on hold.

I want my grandkids to have a better life than what I am seeing now.

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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby pjbogart » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:55 pm

It seems like John Henry is following a popular tactic amongst Republicans these days. They pretend to be disaffected Obama supporters and then create a laundry list of reasons not to support Obama that are directed specifically at the liberal mindset. Note that John says nothing about why he won't be supporting Romney but then creates page long threads describing all the reasons he doesn't like Obama, the man he is tentatively supporting. Seems kind of odd, doesn't it?

And strangely, his journey to the truth follows an identical path of all of the other right-wingers around here. He's a moderate, so you can trust his opinion on why Obama is the most evil man on the planet. But he might still vote for Obama. He hasn't decided yet.

The signal to noise ratio around here has become deafening.

johnfajardohenry wrote:A VP who wanted to could take the limited powers of Senate President and build them into a real power base. Sarah Palin spoke to this a bit in 2008, though she was quickly shut up.


That poor, poor Sarah Palin. She was a real champion for moderates.

johnfajardohenry wrote:I have been a Paulista since the mid-80s.


You support a man who thinks that the Civil Rights Act should be repealed? You believe in a flat tax? You want to repeal Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security? Do away with welfare, unemployment, Head Start and Planned Parenthood? And you voted for Obama? Oh seer of seers, why would you do a thing like that?

johnfajardohenry wrote:As I've noted before, if it is Romney and some other generic candidate from the Repo wing of the DC Party, I'm going with Obama.


Ah, so you have a problem with the "Repo wing of the DC Party." Sounds suspiciously like a Tea Party Patriot to me. And we all know of their begrudging support of Obama.
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:29 pm

It seems like John Henry is following a popular tactic amongst Republicans these days. They pretend to be disaffected Obama supporters and then create a laundry list of reasons not to support Obama that are directed specifically at the liberal mindset. Note that John says nothing about why he won't be supporting Romney but then creates page long threads describing all the reasons he doesn't like Obama, the man he is tentatively supporting. Seems kind of odd, doesn't it?

And strangely, his journey to the truth follows an identical path of all of the other right-wingers around here. He's a moderate, so you can trust his opinion on why Obama is the most evil man on the planet. But he might still vote for Obama. He hasn't decided yet.


Well put.
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby Cornbread » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:49 pm

Ron paul is clueless. OK, he exists in theory, or shall I say "theories" because not much he says is practical.

From what I've seen of Rand Paul, he seems quite OK.
I like Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal. For VP I'd personally prefer Nikki Haley, but for the ticket guarantee, Rubio.

And if Romney wins, the VP won't be some honorary walking hair plugged nutbag or other type going to funerals. I think he'll do what a leader does, what a successful businessperson does, what a person with executive experience does--delegate to good people at times and the conservative candidates are all EXTREMELY good, qualified people.
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby DCB » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:36 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:
That Obama?

That is the guy you are going to support?

How could Romney possibly be worse?

Yeah, that Obama - its pretty sad.

'Support' might be too strong a word.

How? well you might too young to remember, but back in 2000-2008 we had a President Bush. That was even worse.
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby acereraser » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:22 am

Cornbread wrote:And if Romney wins, the VP won't be some honorary walking hair plugged nutbag or other type going to funerals. I think he'll do what a leader does, what a successful businessperson does, what a person with executive experience does--delegate to good people at times and the conservative candidates are all EXTREMELY good, qualified people.


Bold is mine, I was gonna snip just the last part, but it is just so chock full, I couldn't cut it up. For the caps, you earned it.

Image
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby green union terrace chair » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:37 am

Ron Paul is too old, though it would follow suit of the last two VPs in abandoning the tradition of the VP being the next presidential candidate-in-training. (Cheney didn't run, Biden is unlikely to run, I'd think.)

Now Rand Paul ...
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Re: Vice President Paul?

Postby bleurose » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:26 pm

Rand Paul is nothing more than a spoiled rich brat who formed his own ophthalmology certification organization when he couldn't meet the requirements of the existing one.

He also has not a qualm in the world about taking in as much Medicare & Medicaid $$ as he can get his hands on, but wants to deny access to it to as many as possible because, you know, they don't deserve it. Actually, the only way in his mind that one might "deserve" government help is if you directly pay your government help to his business.

He is a monumental embarrassment.
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