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Obama too busy to help us

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Re: Obama too busy to help us

Postby Huckleby » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:50 am

Detritus wrote: OK, so is it "idealistic" to expect the head of the national party not to screw over the base in a state he won four years ago?

He may have hurt your feelings, but he did not screw you over.

There was *nothing* Obama could have done to push that recall over the top.
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Re: Obama too busy to help us

Postby pjbogart » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:24 am

Huckleby wrote:There was *nothing* Obama could have done to push that recall over the top.


I'd take that a step further and say that he probably would have energized Republicans more than Democrats.

The lack of financial backing is a bit harder to understand. I still say the election had a certain "lab experiment" aspect. Can unlimited cash overcome a passionate ground game?

Yes. Yes it can.
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Re: Obama too busy to help us

Postby peripat » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:30 am

I don't believe Obama could have done anything that would have changed the results. It does look like the party was expecting Walker to win & planned to use the win as a fund raising opportunity though.
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Re: Obama too busy to help us

Postby Huckleby » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:36 am

pjbogart wrote: Can unlimited cash overcome a passionate ground game?

Yes. Yes it can.

The Tea Party also had a passionate ground game.

In fact, one of the big losses of this debacle is that the right strengthened their infrastructure in WI. They built volunteer lists, and energized the hinterlands. BTW, this is not my opinion, I am repeating what I heard from pundits who sounded convincing.

If you check out details at Wisconsin Democracy Campaign, wisdc.org you'll see that Walker & allies spent a little more than double what the other side spent. (Other stats bantered about are bogus.) I think the big spenders may have moved the stupidity vote a couple points, but I can't believe it made the difference in such a broadly discussed election. My pet peeve is that conservative domination of local media is a bigger deal.
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Re: Obama too busy to help us

Postby pjbogart » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:45 am

Huckleby wrote:My pet peeve is that conservative domination of local media is a bigger deal.


Don't be silly, Huck. Everyone knows that the media is 99.9% liberally biased. I heard it on Rush!
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Re: Obama too busy to help us

Postby Detritus » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:39 am

Huckleby wrote:
Detritus wrote: OK, so is it "idealistic" to expect the head of the national party not to screw over the base in a state he won four years ago?

He may have hurt your feelings, but he did not screw you over.

There was *nothing* Obama could have done to push that recall over the top.

Hurt my feelings? Don't be ridiculous--this is not about rejected man-crushes. I leave that behavior to Meade. I'm talking about short-sighted political strategies that focus on "protecting" the national party but which, in my opinion, not only accept local damage (not just hurt feelings--real financial and systemic damage to citizens and public institutions) as "regrettable but necessary," which I find disgusting whether applied to "collateral damage" in Afghanistan or here at home. But also, these strategies may well prevent the national party from winning in November.

You know, I really don't want to stomp all over this territory again. Nor, should the Democrats lose the White House and the second Wisconsin Senate seat, and/or their (currently meaningless) control of the State Senate in November, do I want to hear more crap about how the problem lies with the people of this state. If the national Democrats lose, it will be because they were too busy trying to see just how closely to the left of the Republicans they could tack to get the votes of the mythical "center," which they have helped define as "somewhere right of Goldwater."
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Re: Obama too busy to help us

Postby Stella_Guru » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:11 pm

Obama and the corporate controlled Democrats have a curious track record of not supporting some Dems like Bill Thompson, David Peterson, or Carol Mosely Braun, in winnable races even.
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Re: Obama too busy to help us

Postby Madcity Expat » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:38 pm

Detritus wrote:OK, so is it "idealistic" to expect the head of the national party not to screw over the base in a state he won four years ago? If so, then it's "realistic" to expect him to lose that state this time around, right?

I didn't mean "idealistic" in a pejorative sense. I actually paused over that word before I wrote it. Idealism can be a valuable part of political thinking and action.

But the other part of politics is the uglier, sometimes less noble, business of the possible, the probable, and the unlikely - the deal making, compromising, the positioning, the messaging, the blind-eyes turned, fingers-crossed-behind-backs, the tactical retreats... etc, etc.

I think that Obama made the right decision to stay out of Wisconsin on tactical grounds. That's not the same thing as saying that that decision was noble. But I long ago ceased to view politics as noble.

I do understand that you're making the argument that if Obama had thrown his weight behind the Wisconsin recall election it might have tipped the balance in June and November of this year. For the record, that sound's to me like a pragmatic argument, not an idealistic one (which would be more like Obama should have been involved in the just cause - even if it was a lost cause - November be damned). I respect the argument - but I do think it is mistaken.
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Re: Obama too busy to help us

Postby Detritus » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:26 pm

Madcity Expat wrote: I respect the argument - but I do think it is mistaken.

Understood, and appreciated.
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