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School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:53 pm

pjbogart wrote:
Earthling wrote:My newphew is in a 7th grade class in Madison. He has 46 kids in his class and 3 full time teachers for this one huge class. Why is this class not split up? I showed up at the school one day as I was on that side of town and my sister had forgetten to give him money for some school dance or something. I walked in the classroom and one teacher was standing at the front instructing with most of the lights out writing on an overhead projector. The other was sitting in the back doing paperwork, and the third wasn't even in the room. No wonder our schools are failing.


Well, based upon your real life experience, the problem is clearly that the teachers are overpaid and the school is overfunded. If we were to massively cut education spending, I think you'd find your nephew's educational progress improve a great deal.


Typical response: Completely ignores the fact that there were 3 teachers assigned to these children yet only one of them was doing anything.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:58 pm

Earthling wrote: Completely ignores the fact that there were 3 teachers assigned to these children yet only one of them was doing anything.


So you witness this one instance and immediately our schools suck. Did ya ever think at that moment it was a lesson that only one teacher was to be teaching and then afterwards the others would help out with questions.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:05 pm

Earthling wrote: Completely ignores the fact that there were 3 teachers assigned to these children yet only one of them was doing anything.

Since you are getting this info second hand, are you sure there were three teachers assigned to the same class? While some courses might be team taught, students sometimes don't differentiate between certified teachers and teacher assistants. Also, in classes with mainstreamed een students, a special ed teacher might be present from time to time (they also sometimes take students out of the classroom for one-on-one instruction.) With the number of students mentioned (I'd like to know the subject area) the teacher/teacher assistant not involved in direct instruction might be checking/grading homework or in-class work.

Visit a school some time and volunteer to help out. By directing observing (and asking questions) you might find out what teachers do during the school day.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Bert Ernie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:10 pm

Earthling wrote:Public sector employees are a bit naive when it comes to how cut throat the real world is. No question.


This may be the single most condescending piece of BS that has come out of your mouth (at least in recent memory), and is yet ANOTHER nominee for "stupid post of the year." Nice job throwing a blanket over "public sector employees" and deeming them all naive. Clearly, they could not POSSIBLY have the capacity to understand what you understand. All those doctors and lawyers and pilots and professors and researchers and scientists....and...what the hell...all of those soldiers could not POSSIBLY have the insights you've garnered as to what the "real world" looks like.

I'm damn tired of this kind of divisive language that's built on nothing but your experience with what must be idiots that you put around you. On what are you basing your blanket statement that essentially says "public sector employees are naive." You're ridiculously naive for thinking and posting that. And I will gladly give you my phone number and I will introduce you to dozens and dozens of public servants that are smarter and more saavy than you will ever be. Take me up on it. I'll forward you my contact info. I'll even spring for lunch for the entire group as you discuss with them how naive you think they are to the world. Have the courage to do this and learn you are wrong?
Last edited by Bert Ernie on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:10 pm

Do you even remember things you write?


You are putting words in my mouth by insuating that I mean they were living an "extravagant lifestyle." My comment about the "hog" if you will was meant to pertain only to the benefit packages they were recieving not overall lifestyle.

Jeebus Christ you just keep doing it. Says fucking who that they're naive. YOU? Don't you think a lot of public employees have also worked in the private sector.


Not many, and most that did probably worked in the private sector as kids or very young adults. They end up staying in for their entire careers more often than not. You need only have conversations with these people to understand the naivity and sense of entitlement. Many have lost touch with the fact that not only do they have a great job, but that they are lucky to have a job in today's economy. I'd guess the same about you. Whatever it is that you do I'm sure you feel as though you are doing the world a favor by gracing it with your presence everyday.

Both pretty naive then. Ever tell your grandmother she's naive.


My brother is a little naive. He does recognize that he had it pretty good, and doesn't really agree with the recall attempt of Walker. He would have simply voted against him the next time. My grandmother has passed away, but she certainly never would have dreamed of snarling at the kind of money and benefits teachers are making today.

Cause you're a moron


Ad hominem attacks are really all you have left huh? I realize you'll never change your idealogy, but perhaps it's time to start conceding that just because someone doesn't share yours it doesn't make them an "idiot" or a "moron." I think that attitude is a big part of the reason why the democrats are losing the undecided voters. This holier than thou attitude is not overly appealing, and quite frankly makes you look petty and sad.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:13 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Earthling wrote: Completely ignores the fact that there were 3 teachers assigned to these children yet only one of them was doing anything.

Since you are getting this info second hand, are you sure there were three teachers assigned to the same class? While some courses might be team taught, students sometimes don't differentiate between certified teachers and teacher assistants. Also, in classes with mainstreamed een students, a special ed teacher might be present from time to time (they also sometimes take students out of the classroom for one-on-one instruction.) With the number of students mentioned (I'd like to know the subject area) the teacher/teacher assistant not involved in direct instruction might be checking/grading homework or in-class work.

Visit a school some time and volunteer to help out. By directing observing (and asking questions) you might find out what teachers do during the school day.


I assure you, after what I saw I grilled my sister. There are 3 certified full time paid teachers in that classroom, and she says they often have student teachers, etc. on top of that. This is how these kids spend their entire day at least in terms of all standard academic subjects. It makes absolutely no sense. It's at Sherman Middle School. Check it out yourself if you choose. Some new experimental thing I'm told.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:19 pm

Bert Ernie wrote:
Earthling wrote:Public sector employees are a bit naive when it comes to how cut throat the real world is. No question.


This may be the single most condescending piece of BS that has come out of your mouth (at least in recent memory), and is yet ANOTHER nominee for "stupid post of the year." Nice job throwing a blanket over "public sector employees" and deeming them all naive. Clearly, they could not POSSIBLY have the capacity to understand what you understand. All those doctors and lawyers and pilots and professors and researches and scientists....and...what the hell...all of those soldiers could not POSSIBLY have the insights you've garnered as to what the "real world" looks like.

I'm damn tired of this kind of divisive language that's build on nothing but your experience with what must be idiots that you put around you. On what are you basing your blanket statement that essential says "public sector employees are naive." You're ridiculously naive for thinking and posting that. And I will gladly give you my phone number and I will introduce you to dozens and dozens of public servants that are smarter and more saavy than you will ever be. Take me up on it. I'll forward you my contact info. I'll even spring for lunch for the entire group as you discuss with them how naive you think they are to the world. Have the courage to do this and learn you are wrong?


Perhaps if you were so tired divisiveness you should have thought about that before you tried to recall the governor of our state. Now you blame republicans for pitting teachers against taxpayers as if democrats didn't start the whole thing.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Bert Ernie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:23 pm

Earthling wrote:Perhaps if you were so tired divisiveness you should have thought about that before you tried to recall the governor of our state. Now you blame republicans for pitting teachers against taxpayers as if democrats didn't start the whole thing.


WHAT!?!? How do YOU know where I stand with the recall. My challenge stands. Do you have the courage to meet for lunch with several public servants and learn whether they are or are not naive? I will buy lunch. Just say the word, and I'll find a dozen in 20 minutes that are smarter, better, contribute more, and are more wordly wise than you will ever be. Guts to learn you might be wrong? I bet another lunch that you are too much of a coward to meet these public servants in person and perhaps learn that they are better than you believe them to be.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:40 pm

Bert Ernie wrote:
Earthling wrote:Perhaps if you were so tired divisiveness you should have thought about that before you tried to recall the governor of our state. Now you blame republicans for pitting teachers against taxpayers as if democrats didn't start the whole thing.


WHAT!?!? How do YOU know where I stand with the recall. My challenge stands. Do you have the courage to meet for lunch with several public servants and learn whether they are or are not naive? I will buy lunch. Just say the word, and I'll find a dozen in 20 minutes that are smarter, better, contribute more, and are more wordly wise than you will ever be. Guts to learn you might be wrong? I bet another lunch that you are too much of a coward to meet these public servants in person and perhaps learn that they are better than you believe them to be.


So you admit that this is about being better or worse? The teachers you know are the superior intellectuals therefore they should be making all of the money, and I should be a bum on the street. No that isn't a narrow minded naive worldview at all.

I certainly wouldn't subject myself to eating lunch with a bunch of people too set in their own ways to see the forest through the trees. Remember my brother is a teacher. I've heard the stories. He voted for Walker in the first election and wouldn't dare tell anyone. Co-workers of his were chastized to the umpteenth degree for this.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Bert Ernie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:46 pm

Earthling wrote:
So you admit that this is about being better or worse? The teachers you know are the superior intellectuals therefore they should be making all of the money, and I should be a bum on the street. No that isn't a narrow minded naive worldview at all.

No. I did NOT say this. Nice try. I said "better than YOU believe they are." Read it again Earth. Hence, your entire gutless reasoning for backing out doesn't hold water.

I knew you would be too much of a coward to actually face some top notch people and engage them in reasonable discussion to determine if they are or are not as low as you apparently believe they are. Again, these people are soldiers, doctors, lawyers, pilots, educators, researchers, nurses, scientists, etc. And you've made it clear over the past several months that you don't think very highly of any of them....if they are on the public payroll.

You sir are a coward. And what you fear most would appear to be acknowledging you might learn these are top notch people open to many ideas (a lot of them are even REPUBLICANS!) who you might earn some respect for if you'd just sit down and listen and engage. And you call them closed minded..... (except of course for your brother and your grandmother...who apparently are the only smart "one of them.")
Gutless.....
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:52 pm

I sure haven't met alot of state employees that felt as though they were being fairly comepensated. I haven't met many that aren't complaining about something, pretending as though it isn't all about the money, when in actuality it is obvious that their concerns are financially related. But keep on acting as if those protests at the capitol were really about anything other than money. I'll keep defending my position, and you'll defend yours. It won't change anything. I just wish you'd see that not all conservatives hate teachers. At least not all teachers.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Bert Ernie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:58 pm

Earthling wrote:I sure haven't met alot of state employees that felt as though they were being fairly comepensated. I haven't met many that aren't complaining about something, pretending as though it isn't all about the money, when in actuality it is obvious that their concerns are financially related. But keep on acting as if those protests at the capitol were really about anything other than money. I'll keep defending my position, and you'll defend yours. It won't change anything. I just wish you'd see that not all conservatives hate teachers. At least not all teachers.


Well..then let me help you with that, and I'll introduce you to several...and even spring for lunch. You've repeatedly made attacks on public servants over the last several months. And it's baseless. Get a base! Meet some people who ARE public servants that are NONE of the things you keep calling them -- especially naive. Are you afraid you might be wrong and walk away with a different perspective on public servants? I'm betting lunch you will.

I AM defending my argument. I'm offering you an opportunity to PROVE to you that I am RIGHT: that most (not all) public servants are top notch, conscientious, hardworking, community minded people who know a LOT more about the "real world" than even you do. Why are you putting your tail between your legs and not taking me up on it? What is to lose? Other than your rotten perspective on public servants.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:05 pm

First of all I'm divulging my true self to anyone on TDPF....sorry. I'm not meeting you or anybody else for lunch.

Second the naivity I speak of as it relates to state employees is not in a general sense. It's as it relates to their compensation. I don't doubt that most are hard working responsible members of society. I'm merely arguing that some of them make too much money, their benefits used to cost taxpayers ridiculous amounts of money, and some of them feel entitled and self-richeous. No way you can argue with any of that.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Bert Ernie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:16 pm

Earthling wrote:First of all I'm divulging my true self to anyone on TDPF....sorry. I'm not meeting you or anybody else for lunch.


So you hide behind the anonymity of this forum and take baseless pot shots through generalizations at public sector employees? There is courage for you. What are you afraid of in meeting at a public restaurant at lunch with other adults? Learning something? Perhaps discovering that you might be wrong and that there IS a lot of talent in the public sector? Again, I'm betting lunch that your entire perspective on public employees changes after just an hour of sitting down and truly engaging them.

Earthling wrote:Second the naivity I speak of as it relates to state employees is not in a general sense. It's as it relates to their compensation. I don't doubt that most are hard working responsible members of society. I'm merely arguing that some of them make too much money, their benefits used to cost taxpayers ridiculous amounts of money, and some of them feel entitled and self-richeous. No way you can argue with any of that.


Well, THERE is some serious backpedaling. You've argued repeatedly -- usually indeed in general, blanket statements -- over the last several months that public servants are lazy, they are not as accountable as those in the "real world," that they are naive....and so on and so on. You've repeatedly hurled darts at public servants from your anonymous look out. Are you taking all of that back now? Are you now saying that what you MEANT to say is that you simply believe that pubic benefits are too costly and some public servants earn too much? (I have no idea how you square that with having called them "naive".........but.......if that's what you meant....then I'll accept that).

If you retract all of your barbs, that's commendable.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Bert Ernie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:22 pm

Earthling wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
Earthling wrote: Completely ignores the fact that there were 3 teachers assigned to these children yet only one of them was doing anything.



I assure you, after what I saw I grilled my sister. There are 3 certified full time paid teachers in that classroom, and she says they often have student teachers, etc. on top of that. This is how these kids spend their entire day at least in terms of all standard academic subjects. It makes absolutely no sense. It's at Sherman Middle School. Check it out yourself if you choose. Some new experimental thing I'm told.


So do you know if any of those teachers were specifically assigned to one or more special-needs students being mainstreamed into the classroom? You seem to have a great deal of knowledge and wisdom on teaching and learning and what makes "most sense" for learners. I'd welcome you to share that wisdom with the group on how you believe we should develop teaching and learning experiences that best meet the needs of our kids.
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