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Fast and Furious: A Primer

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:10 am

Remember the part about how Obama was going to have a squeakly clean, transparent administration, free of lobbyists, partisan angling and backhanded dealing?
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:13 am

Ned Flanders wrote:Remember the part about how Obama was going to have a squeakly clean, transparent administration, free of lobbyists, partisan angling and backhanded dealing?


I'm sure that applies to law enforcement sting operations. Those should always be transparent. Come to think of it why didn't Obama announce his plans to go after OBL? What was he trying to hide?
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Meade » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:33 pm

fisticuffs wrote:Come to think of it why didn't Obama announce his plans to go after OBL?

He did.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... Laden.html

Ned Flanders wrote:Remember the part about how Obama was going to have a squeakly clean, transparent administration, free of lobbyists, partisan angling and backhanded dealing?

This?

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20090121/index.htm
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby jman111 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:38 am

Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

"Republican senators are whipping up the country into a psychotic frenzy with these reports that are patently false," says Linda Wallace, a special agent with the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigation unit who was assigned to the Fast and Furious team (and recently retired from the IRS). A self-described gun-rights supporter, Wallace has not been criticized by Issa's committee.

"The Truth"
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby jman111 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:40 am

Irony abounds when it comes to the Fast and Furious scandal. But the ultimate irony is this: Republicans who support the National Rifle Association and its attempts to weaken gun laws are lambasting ATF agents for not seizing enough weapons—ones that, in this case, prosecutors deemed to be legal.

Sorta puts things in perspective for me.
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:46 am

jman111 wrote:
Irony abounds when it comes to the Fast and Furious scandal. But the ultimate irony is this: Republicans who support the National Rifle Association and its attempts to weaken gun laws are lambasting ATF agents for not seizing enough weapons—ones that, in this case, prosecutors deemed to be legal.

Sorta puts things in perspective for me.


I was just about to post this article. I thought it was very well written. It gives a lot more detail into what was going on then any of the sound bites in the media.

Of course people like Rich Tool Shultz will only think its left stream media.
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:16 pm

Apparently the gun-walking wasn't part of of Fast & Furious. If you care, read the Fortune investigation.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

The NRA has made a vote against Holder tomorrow a scored vote. (That shows that the wingers are serious about the gun control conspiracy.) Anyway, the handful of Dems standing against Holder are from vulnerable conservative districts, and can't afford to buck the NRA.
One conservative at National Review has nailed the gun angle:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/304094/too-fast-too-furious-robert-verbruggen
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Cornbread » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:06 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Remember the part about how Obama was going to have a squeakly clean, transparent administration, free of lobbyists, partisan angling and backhanded dealing?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Didn't obamaclown also say he was going to put up any bill on his website for 5 days (for public inspection) before he signed it into law?

And not let lobbyists into the white house? :lol:

5 democrats are going to vote for the charge of contempt of the race pimp eric holder.

Yup, according to leftist conspiratorial apologists, it's all a plot..... :D
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Stu Levitan » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:00 am

Ah, so Cornhole is not only a homophobe, but a stank racist as well.

Good to know.
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Meade » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:21 am

Can we get a confirmation on that, Stu Levitan? What is your standard for judging another person's level of racism?
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Meade » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:24 am

At least four Democrats say they will vote Thursday in favor of placing Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress.

Democratic Reps. John Barrow (Ga.), Collin Peterson (Minn.) and Nick Rahall (W.Va.) will all vote in favor of contempt in addition to Rep. Jim Matheson (Utah) when the measure comes to the House floor on Thursday.

The vote is expected to generally be a party-line vote, but one report by Fox News on Wednesday said as many as 20 Democrats could break with President Obama and support the measure.
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:35 am

The NRA has made a vote against Holder a scored vote. (Which is pretty insane, when you think about it. The NRA is riding the nutty conspiracy train, but I guess that's what they do.) A handful of Dems in conservative districts who are in trouble this fall will not buck the NRA. Big Deal.
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby wack wack » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:52 am

Huckleby wrote:Apparently the gun-walking wasn't part of of Fast & Furious. If you care, read the Fortune investigation.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/


I caught stories about the Fortune article on TV last night. Gotta say, if everything in the article is true, it's downright scary how so much misinformation became "common knowledge" about this issue.

Can't wait to read how the wrongists spin this one.
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby other i » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:56 am

So here we have it all boxed up in one story and one thread.

The story linked above tells what happened during the attempt to track and then interdict guns being run to cartels. It lays out the details of a serious attempt to collect information so that, despite restrictions and obstacles produced by the right wing, we could cut into this practice. It then goes on to tell how this story got turned around to being believed as gospel truth by the nutters as the opposite of what happened. It's clear but then, it's a long read. That last detail is at least part of the problem. It's a long read.

Then, you have the nutters throngs coming back, in threads (probably across the country almost as though they are programmed) saying off topic things about lobbyists and the white house, using beat-to-death terms like "obamaclown" and not directly refuting anything in the story.

This is the state of political "thought" on the right today.
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Re: Fast and Furious: A Primer

Postby Cornbread » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:33 pm

Meade wrote:Can we get a confirmation on that, Stu Levitan? What is your standard for judging another person's level of racism?

he's a leftist, ya know, the guys/girls/things running the new democrat party. So if you disagree with their lunar worldview, they sling a meaningless label at you.

I don't know for sure, but I think that they think it's supposed to have some magical power. I don't exactly know what kin of magical power they are supposed to have though--maybe I'm going to get hit by a car? Maybe I'm going to send money to jesse jackson's money cult? I don't know what proclaiming me to be a "homophobe" will make me do....send leftist madisonian dan savage money so he can continue to bully and intimidate straight high school kids?

I dunno. Stu? I think you're a quail egg! There. That makes about as much sense as all the other meaningless, cult like stop thought labels yawls guys spew.
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