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School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:26 pm

Good job, b.e.

Earthling, don't forget all the people who were public sector employees, left or had their jobs terminated, and then came back as private contractors or consultants for way more than they were making to start with.

Does that square with your "overpaid" fixation?
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:42 pm

snoqueen wrote:Good job, b.e.

Earthling, don't forget all the people who were public sector employees, left or had their jobs terminated, and then came back as private contractors or consultants for way more than they were making to start with.

Does that square with your "overpaid" fixation?


Right...I'm sure there are all kinds of these people out there. Hundreds of thousands maybe?
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:46 pm

So do you know if any of those teachers were specifically assigned to one or more special-needs students being mainstreamed into the classroom? You seem to have a great deal of knowledge and wisdom on teaching and learning and what makes "most sense" for learners. I'd welcome you to share that wisdom with the group on how you believe we should develop teaching and learning experiences that best meet the needs of our kids


Again 3 full time teachers...each take turns. They have student teacher's and special education assistants in addition to these three. It doesn't take a brilliant educational mind to understand that it is going to be more effective to break these kids up into smaller groups, actually forcing the teachers to teach more than 33% of the time.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:54 pm

So you hide behind the anonymity of this forum and take baseless pot shots through generalizations at public sector employees? There is courage for you. What are you afraid of in meeting at a public restaurant at lunch with other adults? Learning something? Perhaps discovering that you might be wrong and that there IS a lot of talent in the public sector? Again, I'm betting lunch that your entire perspective on public employees changes after just an hour of sitting down and truly engaging them.


Sorry no, and I'm not allowing you or any other potential creeper into my life. And please stop acting as if I don't have any friends, family, acquaintances, etc., in my life the work the government. You act as though you'd be introducing me to this new species or something. I'm quite familiar with government employees, their beliefs and stances.

Well, THERE is some serious backpedaling. You've argued repeatedly -- usually indeed in general, blanket statements -- over the last several months that public servants are lazy, they are not as accountable as those in the "real world," that they are naive....and so on and so on. You've repeatedly hurled darts at public servants from your anonymous look out. Are you taking all of that back now? Are you now saying that what you MEANT to say is that you simply believe that pubic benefits are too costly and some public servants earn too much? (I have no idea how you square that with having called them "naive".........but.......if that's what you meant....then I'll accept that).


I've not accused all state employees of being lazy, although I wouldn't say that most are the hardest workers I've ever seen. 40 hours a week isn't for successful people in the real world.

AND

Again I have referred to MANY public sector employees as being naive as it relates to their worth. Most feel underpaid when in reality many of them are overpaid. I'm not saying they are naive in life in general.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Bert Ernie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:55 pm

Earthling wrote:Again 3 full time teachers...each take turns. They have student teacher's and special education assistants in addition to these three. It doesn't take a brilliant educational mind to understand that it is going to be more effective to break these kids up into smaller groups, actually forcing the teachers to teach more than 33% of the time.


So your claim is that there is an experimental educational program at Sherman Middle School where there are 3 full time teachers assigned to a normal-sized classroom of students (let's call it 16-25 kids) in addition to student teachers and special education teachers, and teaching assistants? Tell you what. I'm going to call the principal at Sherman (whom I know a bit) tonight and discover the skinny on that. I don't want to claim you're making things up again.....in an effort to support your conspiracy theory that "teachers are overpaid and lazy............but......? I'll report back what I learn tomorrow.
Last edited by Bert Ernie on Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:58 pm

Earthling wrote:Second the naivity I speak of as it relates to state employees is not in a general sense. It's as it relates to their compensation.


You know I have a couple of friends who work in the private sector and have a better benefits package than the public. I have one friend, who after 10 years, gets a fully paid sabbatical. I have another who gets $1000 worth of booze every year(he works for a booze company) and a company car. My brother gets bonuses a couple times of year.

Public employees get none of this. Don't fucking say public employees are naive because you're obviously the naive one.

Earthling wrote:Right...I'm sure there are all kinds of these people out there. Hundreds of thousands maybe?


Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you truly get that there are a ton of people who have gone into the private sector knowing they can get contracted out by the state and make a shit ton more money.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Bert Ernie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:05 pm

Earthling wrote:
Sorry no, and I'm not allowing you or any other potential creeper into my life. And please stop acting as if I don't have any friends, family, acquaintances, etc., in my life the work the government. You act as though you'd be introducing me to this new species or something. I'm quite familiar with government employees, their beliefs and stances.
I've not accused all state employees of being lazy, although I wouldn't say that most are the hardest workers I've ever seen. 40 hours a week isn't for successful people in the real world.

AND

Again I have referred to MANY public sector employees as being naive as it relates to their worth. Most feel underpaid when in reality many of them are overpaid. I'm not saying they are naive in life in general.


This just keeps getting better!! You can't help yourself from digging yourself in deeper and deeper. Where do I start with this one.....

You stated: "40 hours a week isn't for successful people?" Two issues with this Earth: (1) How are you defining successful? My definition includes contributing to the general welfare of community. Yours may be very different, and I respect that. (2)Nice job in blanketing (again!!!.....JUST after you stated you weren't throwing a blanket over ALL public servants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) public servants as "40 hour a week" folks. That in and of itself reveals you know little or nothing of your public sector "friends and neighbors." What's most funny to me about that .....my most successful friends by what appear to be your standards ($) work the fewest hours. And good for them......

Since you're too much of a coward to take me up on my lunch offer, here's challenge #2: My brother is a cop...a police officer. It can't get any safer than shadowing a police officer, right? I challenge you to ride with him for a weekend. To see his "40-hour week" as it turns in to a 60 hour week.......as he's repeatedly on call and called in to work whenever he's needed. (Where you'll subsequently then CONDEMN him for trying to be more successful by working more hours when you claim he's unworthy of the overtime pay). I challenge you to see how hard and how smart he works. And how much HE knows about the real world. Do you have the courage to take me up on THIS challenge? (I think I already know the answer to that). Just say the word, and I'll set up a ride along. I'm sure you're too afraid that you might learn that public employees are better than you believe them to be.....God forbid....

I'd gladly come to your shop...or if you're too afraid that you might be "revealed" I'll make arrangements to go to one of your choosing, where I can get my brain around what constitutes "real world" in your mind. I'll gladly come learn from you what I clearly don't have the capacity to know about "what life is really like out there." Just say the word......
Last edited by Bert Ernie on Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:16 pm

Earthling wrote: although I wouldn't say that most are the hardest workers I've ever seen


So you've encountered a good 20 or 30 thousand of them on a regular basis. That's some amazing shit right there.

Earthling wrote:40 hours a week isn't for successful people in the real world.


You don't know anything about most public employees.

Earthling wrote: Most feel underpaid when in reality many of them are overpaid.


I know it's been debated over and over in thread after thread so I won't belabor this. Simply put...You don't know what you're talking about. You have bought into the conservative talking points and are just rehashing the same bits over and over again without really understanding any of it. You are a right wing politicians wet dream. Send out the memo and let the sheep keep repeating. Bravo Earthling...Bravo.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Cornbread » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:54 pm

Stebben84 wrote:Because this wasn't trying to stir emotions and pit taxpayers against the teachers. :roll:

Image


So you leftist democrats are against knowing what government employees get paid with taxpayer monies?

Why do you leftists always want to maintain such secrecy....all the while, talking on and on about 'freedom' and all that jazz? :shock:
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Cornbread » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:56 pm

gargantua wrote:Another example of a bunch of English words strung together that somehow manage to make no sense.

I love reading this guy's stuff!

Thanks. Some day it will...then you will truly thank me for enlightening you.... :lol:
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Cornbread » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:00 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Earthling wrote: They have been living high on the hog forever


Somewhere, somehow it was repeated enough times that state employees were living this extravagant lifestyle. Total. Fucking. Bullshit. Are there some that make more than they should. Sure. It's like that EVERYWHERE.


Government employees make a higher salary than most of their private sector counterparts, they also have job protections that not even the auto unions can dream about, not to mention their retirement and health care packages. If the latter two were monetized into annual salaries, the real wages of government workers would skyrocket, more accurately reflecting their true, monopolistic value.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:07 am

Cornbread wrote:Government employees make a higher salary than most of their private sector counterparts...

So you say.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby wack wack » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:16 am

Earthling wrote:40 hours a week isn't for successful people in the real world.


Assuming that you're taking the conservative angle, that "successful" means "wealthy," I'd agree: the most successful people I know work 10-15 hours per week, if at all.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby Earthling » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:22 am

People working 10-15 hours a week had to work their way into that situation usually. I doubt there are as many millionares via inheritance as you'd like to believe. And many of those "old fashioned" millionares still work hard even though they don't nescessarily have to.

This is an ideology thing that I don't think we are ever going to see eye to eye on, but as I said before I think it might be time for some of you to at least acknowledge that while you don't agree us fiscal conservatives aren't stupid for believing in what we believe.
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Re: School districts dealing with budget shortfalls

Postby rabble » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:26 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
Cornbread wrote:Government employees make a higher salary than most of their private sector counterparts...

So you say.

That's interesting. I was just looking over a salary survey for software developers and managers and the lowest of them is way above what I make, and I'm somewhere between programmer/analyst and General IT.

I'd say I'm the exception that proves the rule except I know none of my coworkers make that much either.

Huh.
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