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Health Care Reform

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Health Care Reform

Postby jman111 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:35 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:Overall, the cost of healthcare is going to skyrocket.

I don't think this can be definitively stated at this time. We don't, and can't, know yet.
However, I think the increased availability of preventive care and, hopefully, decreased reliance on emergency room care will tend to control overall health care costs.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby wack wack » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:37 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:
wack wack wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:Yes, we should call it by its right name: Affordable Healthcare Act. Anything else is an attempt to deceive and inflame.



And "affordable" is more accurate?


Completely irrelevant. You said we should call it by its right name, it's right name is the Affordable Healthcare Act.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby johnfajardohenry » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:40 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:
I've long thought that health insurance should not be exempt from income taxes when paid by the employer.


That sentence is a bit clumsy and probably unclear.

Any compensation given to an employee, including health insurance, should be and currently is deductible to the employer as a business operating expense.

Any compensation received by the employee except health (and some life) insurance is supposed to be reported to the IRS and the employee is supposed to pay tax on the value of it.

It has always seemed wrong to me. It seems to me that employees should see the cost of health care premiums in their W-2 form at the end of the year, and that these premiums should be taxable to the employee just like any other income.

It should be treated no differently for tax purposes than if the employer paid the employees auto insurance directly.

Alternately, if an individual pays for their own health insurance, it should be deductible from their income for tax computations.

Current cost of health care premiums is between $8-12,000 year depending on where one lives and other factors. That is about $4-6 per hour in additional pay that neither the kitchen worker nor the CEO sees or is taxed on.

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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:41 am

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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby rrnate » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:42 am

Wow! Definitely surprised it was Roberts that swung the vote - when he was confirmed, there had been a lot of talk about how centrist/legal-minutiae-oriented he was, but he sure hasn't voted that way.

Talk about repealing it is kinda hot air now, I'd say - insurers are going to have to start implementing the changes they've been planning for but waiting to pull the trigger on. Congress trying to repeal it now would be pretty problematic from an organizational level.

jman111 wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:Overall, the cost of healthcare is going to skyrocket.

I don't think this can be definitively stated at this time. We don't, and can't, know yet.
However, I think the increased availability of preventive care and, hopefully, decreased reliance on emergency room care will tend to control overall health care costs.


Yeah, the line of thought that this is going to lead to a big increase in healthcare cost is pretty off base if you really know how the set up is going to work. The decreased reliance on ER care alone is going to have a huge impact on overall cost; I'd say I was surprised there hasn't been more attention given to that fact, but it's the kind of non-easily-headlined thought that easily gets pushed aside.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby rrnate » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:43 am

Henry Vilas wrote:This didn't take long:
Walker: state won't implement health care law despite ruling


Hilarious - Walker's dilly-dallying is gonna be a lot more expensive than moving forward now.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:50 am

johnfajardohenry wrote: And "affordable" is more accurate?

How?

Do you really think healthcare will be more affordable now? Do you really think this act does anything to make healthcare more affordable?

For lower-income working people, it makes health care more affordable because of government subsidies.

Making health care more affordable overall is a 15 year process. Obamacare gets the ball rolling by funding pilot programs to test strategies to restructure delivery.

The amount of people added to the insurance pool has been wildly exaggerated. The increased demand is not going to cause prices to soar. Those people were already placing cost burdens.

johnfajardohenry wrote: Overall, the cost of healthcare is going to skyrocket.
A 10% increase in demand for primary care resources may cause minor inconvienence, but not skyrocketing prices. Obamacare also expands primary care resources by incentivizing students to pursue those professions. It's not a fixed, zero-sum game.


johnfajardohenry wrote:2) Employers will stop providing health insurance and it will become the responsibility of the individual. I have said for years that the way we treat health insurance, as compared to the way we treat auto, house or other insurance is terrible.

I've long thought that health insurance should not be exempt from income taxes when paid by the employer.
Employer-provided health care drives costs higher. Obamacare is weening the country off that system. This is part of a very long-term process of reducing costs.

johnfajardohenry wrote:And now that it is a "tax", it is also completely accurate to say that it is collected at gunpoint. Ultimately anyway. Most people will pay before it comes to that point but the gun is always there even if holstered or hidden.
Gunpoint!? How ridiculous. 85% of Americans already have health insurance of some form, and are subject to no guns or taxes. Most of the lower classes will get medicaid or subsidies. That leaves a very small number of free loaders who can afford health insurance, but decide to place their risks on the backs of others. What is the gun pointed at these people? They have to pay a lousy $200 per year to subsidize the health care system that bails them out in the emergency room! After 4 years, it goes up to $600 or something, but it is a tiny tax penalty.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:07 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:This didn't take long:
Walker: state won't implement health care law despite ruling

Walker also threw in this excuse for Wisconsin's poor job growth:
He said the decision creates uncertainty for Wisconsin businesses and that's bad for job growth.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:15 pm

I'm relieved that Obama got a political victory today, and there is hope that we can start to fix health care.

But it's a real sweet & sour decision. As I keep reminding people, the real battle is not about insurance companies or mandates, it's the epic ideological struggle of whether health care will be a right or a commodity. It looks like the key component of that struggle is left in highly unsettled state. The worst problem, the poor people stuck behind the red Iron Curtain, will not see any progress. The Republican states are going to be able to resist medicaid expansion.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby DCB » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:25 pm

rabble wrote:If Romney keeps it up with his "I'll repeal it on my first day" tactic, I think there's a pretty good chance. There appear to be quite a few uninsured out there who don't like being that way.

It begins to look like Obama's best campaign staffer is Mitt.


The GOP is calling on the supernatural powers of the Twitter with the incantation '#FullRepeal'.

You know, sometimes poor people will die just because they are poor.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:27 pm

Hmmm. it was "Repeal and Replace" not more than a month ago. turns out not a single one of them an answer for the "replace" part of that equation. Or at least not one that's going to win them any elections.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:43 pm

nutria wrote:...with Roberts in the majority, no less. It will be interesting to see how that is spun in the right-wing media.


From Rand Paul:

Just because a couple people on the Supreme Court declare something to be ‘constitutional’ does not make it so. The whole thing remains unconstitutional.


http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/28/sen-r ... -ruling-on

That's some of the best spin I've ever read. I guess Dr. Paul gets to choose what is constitutional. And there are people on this forum who seem to worship the guy. Holy Jeebus.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:09 pm

Well this guy thinks Roberts is "an evil genius."

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/john ... -1.1103982

"The reality, of course, is that Roberts has permitted the implementation of a conservative health-care regime, energized the Republican base, preserved his ability to vote against liberal congressional measures as violating the commerce clause and aggrandized himself as an apolitical Chief Justice. I tip my hat to his evil genius."
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:12 pm

Romney may very well win in a landslide.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby peripat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:30 pm

You mean you think he'll get the credit for this victory & his original 'Romneycare' in MA?
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