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Paterno: Why he should coach forever

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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Meade » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:52 pm

bdog wrote:Penn State and Joe Paterno better have their check books handy for the civil suits.

Prescient comment by bdog. That was when Paterno was still alive.

Now Joe Paterno is mercifully dead. But, depending on Pennsylvania tort law, it might even be possible for victims to sue his estate. Compensatory and punitive damages could easily total hundreds of millions of dollars.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Now that the Freeh report has been released, blaming PSU and especially the football program for putting the reputation of the university ahead of protecting the welfare of children, should their football team suffer the "death penalty" and be shut down for a year? Many are calling for exactly that. Example here.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:29 pm

I think they can just fire the people who were involved in the cover up. I don't like the idea of punishing coaches and players who weren't even there at the time.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:58 pm

Isn't that usually the case when the NCAA hands down sanctions? Should they do nothing instead?

As far as firing people, it's too late for that. Sandusky still has his pension and so do JoePa's heirs.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:06 pm

Penn State football should get the death penalty.

I expect that JoePa is serving a little time in purgatory right now.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Igor » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:31 pm

I think this is a criminal matter. I'm not sure the NCAA should get involved, but they probably will.

Aside from Sandusky, if you are apportioning blame in this mess, I would give Paterno some - 5-25%. I don't agree with those that blame only him, and I don't agree with those few misguided Penn State message board denizens that demonize everyone else involved but absolve him.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby david cohen » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:45 pm

Another approach: Should PSU be allowed to continue to reap massive profits off their football program, given that the Head Coach, Athletic Director, and University President were involved in covering up the child sexual abuse?
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Igor » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:09 pm

david cohen wrote:Another approach: Should PSU be allowed to continue to reap massive profits off their football program, given that the Head Coach, Athletic Director, and University President were involved in covering up the child sexual abuse?


Certain Title IX advocates indicate that football doesn't make money for universities, so eliminating it would actually make money for Penn State and implicitly reward the coverup...

Seriously, as I stated earlier in the thread, there were multiple issues that encouraged a "we can handle this" philosophy. Sports, academia, and small towns can all encourage that behavior. All three were present here.

However, if this were a history professor, Biology TA, or women's track assistant coach, I don't think there would be discussion of eliminating those activities on campus. You punish the people involved, and change policies so that a similar situation cannot happen again.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Detritus » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:28 pm

Igor wrote:Certain Title IX advocates indicate that football doesn't make money for universities, so eliminating it would actually make money for Penn State and implicitly reward the coverup...

According to the US Dept. of Education, last year Penn State spent roughly $19.5 million on their football team ($19,519,288, to be exact). No clear breakdown on expenses, although it says they spent nearly $3 million on each game, and they don't count capital expense (i.e. the stadium, training facilities, etc.). They reported revenue of nearly $73 million ($72,747,734), or about 3.75 times their cost.

For comparison, the UW spent more than $23 million ($23,662,925) on the Badger football team, and made a little over $43 million ($43,296,599)--less than twice their cost.

Penn State actually does pretty well, by that accounting.

Edited to add a link to the database: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Igor » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:50 pm

Detritus wrote:Penn State actually does pretty well, by that accounting.


Yeah, I was just joking. I read a Title IX blog every so often that focuses lots of time on how beneficial it would be if schools would drop football because hardly any teams make money on it.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Detritus » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:46 am

Igor wrote:
Detritus wrote:Penn State actually does pretty well, by that accounting.


Yeah, I was just joking. I read a Title IX blog every so often that focuses lots of time on how beneficial it would be if schools would drop football because hardly any teams make money on it.

I think that's true. Only a few schools make money off football directly--of course, the claim is often that a successful team encourages more general giving from alumni, but that is pretty hard to verify. One might also wonder what happens to the money that profitable football teams generate, but that's another question that most schools don't have to worry about.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby snoqueen » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:24 am

Not being a fan, I'm hoping the liability over head injuries starts to put an end to the era when college football teams are such a big deal.

Sorry, I don't mean to piss on people's fun. But it's important, and young players are often lacking a long-term perspective on their lives and health.

We could have safer (and more sex-equal) sports programs and still have competition and excitement.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Igor » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:28 pm

snoqueen wrote:Not being a fan, I'm hoping the liability over head injuries starts to put an end to the era when college football teams are such a big deal.

Sorry, I don't mean to piss on people's fun. But it's important, and young players are often lacking a long-term perspective on their lives and health.

We could have safer (and more sex-equal) sports programs and still have competition and excitement.


A couple smaller dominoes would have to fall first. As far as school-related sports acivities go, I believe that pole vaulting is the most dangerous. Not sure where downhill ski racing or gymnastics fall. Obviously, things like auto racing and extreme sports, while not generally sponsored by schools, are also probably in the same ballpark or worse.

College sports offerings are one thing, but I think that it was a mistake not to account for no-cut sports at the high school and middle school level. To me, if a high school offers:

- 8 "cut" sports for both boys and girls, which equal 400 spots for each
- 4 no-cut sports for both boys and girls

That should be considered an equal program. I think that most schools run into issues because more boys go out for the no-cut sports, and they can't drive the girl's participation high enough to balance that out.

I went back and looked at my HS yearbooks from the late 70's. The boys did have a slight edge in overall athletic numbers, probably 60/40. On the other hand, the girls had a 75/25 advantage for other extracurricular activities, as well as academic honors. It's probably just a matter of time before some enterprising attorney uses Title IX to sue a school district for not offering enough clubs that interest boys.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Huckleby » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:10 am

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8166643/joe-paterno-statue-remain-penn-state-sources-say

The embattled members of Penn State's Board of Trustees quietly have decided to leave Joe Paterno's statue standing -- at least for now and, some hope, forever, according to sources with firsthand knowledge of the trustees' private discussions this week.

The trustees' reluctance to remove the statue is motivated, in part, by a desire not to offend alumni and students who adore the late coach despite the damning findings of his role in the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse cover-up detailed in the Freeh report, the sources said.


I read an excellent suggestion from a fan: The JoePa statue should remain, but several more statues should be added, statues of boys representing the victims. Make it a shrine to a tragedy, like a war memorial.

The fact that the Penn State fans, colllege coaches, and football media have rallied around the football program is a clear indication that they don't get what happened. The idea that people are even discussing whether a statue of a sad criminal should be left standing is pathetic. Paterno just lied to the public and grand jury about the most serious of crimes. HE is not an honorable man. He placed his football program ahead of the lives of countless innocent children. He expressed no concern for kids who were being abused on his watch. I can forgive him and try to understand his flaw, but a statue to celebrate "the good parts" is obscene.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. JoePa had absolute power, and even a good man turned bad.

Some have argued that shutting the football program down punishes innocent people, especially the athletes. The athletes can play football at another big 10 school, this is not the end of their worlds. The point of shutting off football down for a year is not to punish anybody, in my view. The point is to force people to acknowledge what happened. The football world is in mass denial of the role that football worship at Penn State played in this tragedy. They want to just restart the wild circus and act like nothing happened.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby bdog » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:19 am

The thought of a statue for a football coach is goddamn funny.

But it's part and parcel of the hero worship that occurs with your typical meathead sports fan.

Penn State Football: REBOOT!
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