MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Thursday, November 27, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 22.0° F  Overcast
Collapse Photo Bar

Shorewood bike cops again

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby WestSideYuppie » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:33 pm

seemunkyz wrote:
WestSideYuppie wrote: It would be more convenient for me to amend the rule to allow a cyclist to maintain enough speed going through a stop sign to control the bike and stay on the pedals.


Yeah?


Yeah.

Well it would be more conveninent for me as a drive if bikers stopped at stop signs so that I don't have to worry about one riding his way into my path, so who's needs are more important? You can't just say a law should be changed because it inconveniences you.


That's why I didn't just say that. I said "in the absence of a threat..."

That's pretty asinine and selfish. It would also be more convenient for me if I could just take what I want from the store without paying, or murder those who annoy me, but laws are in place to protect public safety, so I don't.


Great analogy. Yet if those laws are the only things stopping you from stealing and murdering, remind me to avoid you.

And how about the situation where at a 4 way stop two bikes arrive at the same time. Now what? Who stops and who doesn't? If you had a set of rules to follow, oh, maybe normal traffic laws, there would be a solution! Not saying that two bikes are as likely to collide as a car with a bike, but there are so many scenarios to consider that we may as well just follow the rules set up for our safety.


There are already rules in place for who gets priority at a stop sign. Rolling stops don't change that.

I still don't understand why it is such a big deal to come to a stop, then continue on your merry way. It costs you a total of 10 seconds per? Ooooh I feel so bad for you. Better than the months of rehab it will take if you get hit by the car that expected you to stop.


Likewise I also don't think it's such a big deal to make a rolling stop. If you really expect cyclists and drivers to make full stops at stop signs, then you might be the one who ends up in rehab. I never assume that the person coming the other way is going to stop. And if rolling stops were allowed, they wouldn't be any less expected by drivers. It's hard to make an urgent public safety case for a law that is regularly disregarded.
WestSideYuppie
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 4:25 pm

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby TeachInPeace » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:49 pm

#firstworldproblems :roll:
TeachInPeace
Senior Member
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:12 am

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby fennel » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:21 pm

I expect the cops would be much more reasonable and not so prone to hew to the letter of the law if the fines were paid to an unrelated third party, like the Dubuque Food Bank or some such. That would break the evil feedback loop that makes income a priority over penalties.
fennel
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3218
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Ninja » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:10 pm

WestSideYuppie wrote:It would be more convenient for me to amend the rule to allow a cyclist to maintain enough speed going through a stop sign to control the bike and stay on the pedals.


You should do that then. So we're all on the same page.
Ninja
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby seemunkyz » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:24 am

WestSideYuppie wrote:
seemunkyz wrote:And how about the situation where at a 4 way stop two bikes arrive at the same time. Now what? Who stops and who doesn't? If you had a set of rules to follow, oh, maybe normal traffic laws, there would be a solution! Not saying that two bikes are as likely to collide as a car with a bike, but there are so many scenarios to consider that we may as well just follow the rules set up for our safety.


There are already rules in place for who gets priority at a stop sign. Rolling stops don't change that.


Which was exactly my point. There are already rules in place, so just follow them.

WestSideYuppie wrote:
seemunkyz wrote:I still don't understand why it is such a big deal to come to a stop, then continue on your merry way. It costs you a total of 10 seconds per? Ooooh I feel so bad for you. Better than the months of rehab it will take if you get hit by the car that expected you to stop.


Likewise I also don't think it's such a big deal to make a rolling stop. If you really expect cyclists and drivers to make full stops at stop signs, then you might be the one who ends up in rehab. I never assume that the person coming the other way is going to stop. And if rolling stops were allowed, they wouldn't be any less expected by drivers. It's hard to make an urgent public safety case for a law that is regularly disregarded.


I don't expect cyclists and drivers to stop every time, which is why I do stop every time. The point really is that if you are too selfish and lazy to put your foot down, then maybe you deserve a ticket, or should find another means of transportation. And more importantly that the effort that Shorewood Police were said to put forward is to try and educated that there is a law in place, and that it shouldn't be regularly disregarded. The rule wouldn't be there and they wouldn't be enforcing it if there weren't already instances of where it came in handy or was pertinent.

You go ahead and roll through as many stop signs as you want, I'm not here to stop you, just don't piss and moan when you get a ticket, the threat of a ticket, or worse. Like I said in a previous post, the laws are in place because there is a certain percentage of the population without the necessary reasoning skilss to make said decisions on the spot. The laws are there to make said decision making quicker and easier.
seemunkyz
Senior Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:31 pm

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Peanutbutter » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:31 am

Henry Vilas wrote:And another one. He blames a pretty woman, not the heroin he just shot up.


A liberal city like Madison has massive problems with druggies?

In other news, water is wet and the sun is hot.
Peanutbutter
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:54 am

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Endo Rockstar » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:40 am

So quick question to drivers when navigating around bicycle commuters (full disclosure - I commute by bike every day).

When you're making a right hand turn at an intersection with a bike lane on your right do you block the bike lane with your vehicle by pulling all the way over to the curb as you're turning right? I do when I'm driving. My reasoning is I don't want a biker trying to pass me on my right as I'm turning --especially with how quick some of the people on bikes around here are.

Just curious what other people do. I've found when I don't do this, after I've looked to the right to make sure the crosswalk and my blind spot is clear, I naturally look left to make sure I'm not pulling out in front of another vehicle. In those short seconds there is more than enough time for a biker to suddenly appear in my blind spot again -- and that thought terrifies me.

-Dan Motor
Endo Rockstar
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1264
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:16 pm
Location: Madison

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:10 am

I pretty much do the same thing as you for the same reason. If I see that a bike is coming although, I'll usually wait it out till they pass. A lot of the newer bike lanes are on the left of the parked cars so often times I'm not actually blocking the bike lane.
Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5118
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby wallrock » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:13 am

Endo Rockstar wrote:When you're making a right hand turn at an intersection with a bike lane on your right do you block the bike lane with your vehicle by pulling all the way over to the curb as you're turning right?

I do if I'm planning on making a right on red. If I'm turning on green I don't really unless I pass a biker a bit before the intersection. Otherwise I would hope my turn signal was enough to prevent an accident.
wallrock
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:11 am
Location: Middleton

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby seemunkyz » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:16 am

Endo Rockstar wrote:So quick question to drivers when navigating around bicycle commuters (full disclosure - I commute by bike every day).

When you're making a right hand turn at an intersection with a bike lane on your right do you block the bike lane with your vehicle by pulling all the way over to the curb as you're turning right? I do when I'm driving. My reasoning is I don't want a biker trying to pass me on my right as I'm turning --especially with how quick some of the people on bikes around here are.

Just curious what other people do. I've found when I don't do this, after I've looked to the right to make sure the crosswalk and my blind spot is clear, I naturally look left to make sure I'm not pulling out in front of another vehicle. In those short seconds there is more than enough time for a biker to suddenly appear in my blind spot again -- and that thought terrifies me.

-Dan Motor


In general at all intersections I try to do the same thing, pulling all the way to the right. They actually taught me to do that in driver's ed. This not only prevents bikes from trying to pass on the right (which is illegal), but also gives room for bikes and other motorists to pass on the left.
seemunkyz
Senior Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:31 pm

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Detritus » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:30 pm

seemunkyz wrote:In general at all intersections I try to do the same thing, pulling all the way to the right. They actually taught me to do that in driver's ed. This not only prevents bikes from trying to pass on the right (which is illegal), but also gives room for bikes and other motorists to pass on the left.

I try to do this as well, although sometimes it's not possible (downtown with the parking-and-bicycle lanes which, by the way, really have to go). The city could encourage this by changing the line between the travel and bike lines into a dash heading toward a corner. There are some spots kind of like that, such when you're heading east on M toward 113 and want to turn south toward Madison--the line changes to dashed to show cars can cross the bike lane to get to the right turn lane.
Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby WestSideYuppie » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:36 pm

seemunkyz wrote:
WestSideYuppie wrote:
seemunkyz wrote:And how about the situation where at a 4 way stop two bikes arrive at the same time. Now what? Who stops and who doesn't? If you had a set of rules to follow, oh, maybe normal traffic laws, there would be a solution! Not saying that two bikes are as likely to collide as a car with a bike, but there are so many scenarios to consider that we may as well just follow the rules set up for our safety.


There are already rules in place for who gets priority at a stop sign. Rolling stops don't change that.


Which was exactly my point. There are already rules in place, so just follow them.


One can follow a rule while challenging its merits.

WestSideYuppie wrote:
seemunkyz wrote:I still don't understand why it is such a big deal to come to a stop, then continue on your merry way. It costs you a total of 10 seconds per? Ooooh I feel so bad for you. Better than the months of rehab it will take if you get hit by the car that expected you to stop.


Likewise I also don't think it's such a big deal to make a rolling stop. If you really expect cyclists and drivers to make full stops at stop signs, then you might be the one who ends up in rehab. I never assume that the person coming the other way is going to stop. And if rolling stops were allowed, they wouldn't be any less expected by drivers. It's hard to make an urgent public safety case for a law that is regularly disregarded.


I don't expect cyclists and drivers to stop every time, which is why I do stop every time. The point really is that if you are too selfish and lazy to put your foot down


Ad hominem. Whether I'm selfish and lazy isn't germane to whether requiring full stops is vital to safety.

, then maybe you deserve a ticket, or should find another means of transportation. And more importantly that the effort that Shorewood Police were said to put forward is to try and educated that there is a law in place, and that it shouldn't be regularly disregarded. The rule wouldn't be there and they wouldn't be enforcing it if there weren't already instances of where it came in handy or was pertinent.


My guess is that cyclists were acting like jerks, and someone complained. The stop sign rule is a way to reprimand cyclists who are acting like jerks.

You go ahead and roll through as many stop signs as you want, I'm not here to stop you, just don't piss and moan when you get a ticket, the threat of a ticket, or worse. Like I said in a previous post, the laws are in place because there is a certain percentage of the population without the necessary reasoning skilss to make said decisions on the spot. The laws are there to make said decision making quicker and easier.


That's fine. I can go along with all of that. Like I said it's not really a big deal, and it's clear that you're concerned about safety.
WestSideYuppie
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 4:25 pm

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby jammybastard » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:17 am

I love bicycles and their riders.
Downtown I stop at all bike path crossing and let them continue through.
I'll even pause at a Stop sign extra long so the bicyclist in the opposite turn lane, who's elegantly balancing while stopped, can go ahead of me.
But...
Don't resent me from seeing you.
Don't resent me for trying to helping you out, especially in high traffic areas.
Don't give me that expression (or hand gesture) of frustration because I'm not fucking you over like everyone else in a car and going ahead of you even though you've been waiting to cross an intersection.
Finally don't HIT the side of my car with your fist as you go whizzing by, scaring the shit out of my kids, because their not enough room for you on the far right side of Regent during rush hour.
I know you are there, I'm trying to give you room.
There's a bike path 100 ft away. We both paid for it. Use it.

There are plenty of assholes in cars who drive like they own the road and have a chip on their shoulder.
There are a few bicyclists who have decided to do the same.
Please don't be one of them.
jammybastard
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 12:05 pm
Location: All Up In Your General Area

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Crockett » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:40 am

jammybastard wrote:Downtown I stop at all bike path crossing and let them continue through.
I'll even pause at a Stop sign extra long so the bicyclist in the opposite turn lane, who's elegantly balancing while stopped, can go ahead of me.


What you don't understand is (unlike pedestrians in crosswalks I guess) most bicyclists don't want you to do these things. It makes it more dangerous for them.

I HATE when cars do the things in your examples. Its unexpected behavior and makes things more complicated. As long as everyone behaves in a similar manner according to a set of standards I can modify my biking behavior to those standards.

I view every car as a shark. You guys are big, scary and dangerous. As long as you keep acting like a shark I can figure out how to stay out of your jaws. When you act differently I get confused and then another shark - who acts like a shark should - comes along and eats me.

Please don't kill me with kindness. You follow your rules and I'll follow mine. At least then we're on the same page. When you deviate from those norms you invite confusion and thus danger.
Crockett
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Dust Mite Rodeo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:48 am

Especially when there's a two lane road and the driver in the right lane stops and tries to wave you through. Thanks lady, I'll just pass in front of you and get killed by the left lane traffic that's still going 50 mph.
Dust Mite Rodeo
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:24 am
Location: Revival tent of the live-wire handlers

PreviousNext

Return to Town Vibe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar