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Shorewood bike cops again

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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby WestSideYuppie » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:04 am

That scene unfolds probably every 15 minutes where Midvale crosses the commuter path.
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Crockett » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:15 am

WestSideYuppie wrote:That scene unfolds probably every 15 minutes where Midvale crosses the commuter path.


I'd love to see a "Don't Stop for Bikes" sign there. Kind of like the "Don't Stop for Hitchhikers" signs you see near prisons.

If the Madison populace wasn't so confused from the crosswalk insanity this probably wouldn't be an issue. Cars would drive, bikers would wait until the road cleared and the world would be normal.
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby DCB » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:16 am

Crockett wrote:You follow your rules and I'll follow mine. At least then we're on the same page. When you deviate from those norms you invite confusion and thus danger.

yup.
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby green union terrace chair » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:46 pm

As someone who is generally anti-government regulation, I think we need MORE driver education and stricter licensing requirements. I think you ought to have to take a written test every ten years. Laws change, people forget, we could all use a review.

I also think people ought to be licensed for biking in the street. WHAT?? THAT'S CRAZY!! Well we obviously have a problem with tons of bikers who don't know the law and general public awareness campaigns aren't completing the job.
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby WestSideYuppie » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:03 pm

Crockett wrote:
WestSideYuppie wrote:That scene unfolds probably every 15 minutes where Midvale crosses the commuter path.


I'd love to see a "Don't Stop for Bikes" sign there. Kind of like the "Don't Stop for Hitchhikers" signs you see near prisons.

If the Madison populace wasn't so confused from the crosswalk insanity this probably wouldn't be an issue. Cars would drive, bikers would wait until the road cleared and the world would be normal.


I'm with you on this. I think it should work as follows: A bike is a vehicle, and a pedestrian is a pedestrian. If a cyclist needs some extra consideration, such as an elderly person or someone with kids on bikes, they can hop off and the cars will stop for them. I used to do that when my kids were smaller and I needed to know that the cars were really going to stop. When drivers saw me off my bike, they usually stopped for me. If not, I waited.

AFAIK there is an extra fine for blowing through a crosswalk if the car in the other lane is already stopped.
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby seemunkyz » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:16 am

Dust Mite Rodeo wrote:Especially when there's a two lane road and the driver in the right lane stops and tries to wave you through. Thanks lady, I'll just pass in front of you and get killed by the left lane traffic that's still going 50 mph.


This situation actually applies on foot, bike, and in a car. Technically if someone waves someone else through and it causes an accident, the person who waved is at fault. Best to just stop and make eye contact. Sometimes when I'm in my car for this situation I just throw my hands in the air as to say, "I'm not moving, but I can't speak for anyone else."

But I'm with you, "Thanks random person I've never met, I'll trust your judgment that my life is in no danger...."

This brings up an interesting situation. If a person waves someone through and they get hit in a different lane, does a person waving negate the extra fine for the other lane not stopping? Or is this then a multiple-fault situation? I would hope multiple fault...
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:51 am

seemunkyz wrote:This brings up an interesting situation. If a person waves someone through and they get hit in a different lane, does a person waving negate the extra fine for the other lane not stopping? Or is this then a multiple-fault situation? I would hope multiple fault...


I'd like to think it's multiple fault. I can't recall ever reading about this happening, but I'm sure it has. Although it depends on whether the other car was able to see the pedestrian or not. One car may have been, but the other might have had there view of the ped or bike blocked.
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby seemunkyz » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:31 pm

Stebben84 wrote:I'd like to think it's multiple fault. I can't recall ever reading about this happening, but I'm sure it has. Although it depends on whether the other car was able to see the pedestrian or not. One car may have been, but the other might have had there view of the ped or bike blocked.


I have seen this happen with someone waving a car through, but have only ever heard "through the grapevine" of an instance with a pedestrian. Even then I never got closure past learning the person who waved got a ticket. Endangerment, neglegence, or something like that... it was years ago.

I would have to hope that even if someone couldn't see the pedestrian they would wonder why the other car stopped and be on high alert.
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Detritus » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:50 pm

seemunkyz wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:I'd like to think it's multiple fault. I can't recall ever reading about this happening, but I'm sure it has. Although it depends on whether the other car was able to see the pedestrian or not. One car may have been, but the other might have had there view of the ped or bike blocked.


I have seen this happen with someone waving a car through, but have only ever heard "through the grapevine" of an instance with a pedestrian. Even then I never got closure past learning the person who waved got a ticket. Endangerment, neglegence, or something like that... it was years ago.

I would have to hope that even if someone couldn't see the pedestrian they would wonder why the other car stopped and be on high alert.

I'm pretty sure this happened one night a few years ago at the intersection of Frances and Johnson (where the Saxony is). One car stopped in the northmost lane for a pedestrian, who was then struck and killed by a car coming up in the second lane. I don't remember if there were charges. In a case like this, the person in the second lane could easily think the stopped car was preparing to turn left onto Frances without signalling, and if they were moving kind of fast, they wouldn't have time to react.
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby Ducatista » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:17 am

I used to stubbornly refuse to cross a one-way when a car in the near lane stopped for me. And get creamed by the car in the next lane? No thanks, please fuck off and drive on.

Now I wave thanks, cross to the second lane, stop in front of the car that stopped for me, and peek around to make sure nobody's coming. I've had people blow right past me, but once people see there's a ped in the middle of the road, they usually stop.

I'm still annoyed by the crosswalk law, because I can find my own break in traffic, thank you very much. But the law isn't for pedestrian ninjas, it's for people who might otherwise not be able to cross, and it just seemed needlessly obstinate to blow off drivers who were doing their best to comply.

And if anyone asks "was a mind ever changed on an internet forum," yes, I changed my crosswalk behavior based on a few TDPF threads on the subject.
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Re: Shorewood bike cops again

Postby snoqueen » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:04 pm

That's impressive. I'm not past the "fuck off and drive on" stage yet but something still could change my mind.

Here's a link that might change a few minds too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/techn ... ml?_r=1&hp

(New York Times paywall alert.)

It discusses and shows bicyclists who have cameras on their helmets that record their entire ride. Aggressive drivers have been caught using their footage following crashes.

As cameras have influenced police activity, they are also likely to influence how people act as drivers, peds, and cyclists. Whatever you do in a public place, it's best to assume someone is making a video.

The nice thing is the person with the camera also might consider his own recording could be used against him as well as in his favor.
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