MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Sunday, December 28, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 18.0° F  A Few Clouds
Collapse Photo Bar

The Rich Are Different From You And Me

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:30 pm

More than $21T hiding in offshore tax havens

It isn't just Romney who has hidden his riches in offshore accounts.

Using tax loopholes, multinational corporations and the world's ultra-rich have squirreled away between $21 trillion and $32trillion with the help of banks and Wall Street firms...

The offshore hoard equals the total GDPs of the U.S. and Japanese economies, claims the non-partisan,U.K.-based Tax Justice Network.

The study says that 92,000 people -- 0.001% of the world's population -- own more than $7.6 trillion in assets.


Yet they want even more tax breaks at the expense of all the rest of us.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20286
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:22 am

Is it illegal?
Ned Flanders
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 13533
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 2:48 pm

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby rabble » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:31 am

Who writes the law?
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6552
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby gargantua » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:54 am

Ned Flanders wrote:Is it illegal?


Is it moral?
gargantua
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4401
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:30 pm
Location: Madison

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby Meade » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:57 am

gargantua wrote:Is it moral?

Do tell.
Meade
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3341
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby Comrade » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:57 am

What conclusions can one draw about US tax policy from an article talking about how much money the rich have sheltered around the world? There isn't even a breakdown about how much of that is from US citizens.
Comrade
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 10:53 am

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:01 am

What conclusions can one draw about US tax policy from an article talking about how much money the rich have sheltered around the world?


We can draw the conclusion that lack of capital is not the problem with our economy, therefore giving tax breaks to these hoarders only solves a problem that doesn't exist.
fisticuffs
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 7857
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: Slightly outside of Madison

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby Comrade » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:18 am

How can you draw that if you do not know how many of these are Anericans and how much money they have abroad?
Comrade
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 10:53 am

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby pjbogart » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:50 am

Comrade wrote:How can you draw that if you do not know how many of these are Anericans and how much money they have abroad?


Can we agree that it's somewhere between $0 and $21,000,000,000,000? Would 25% be a conservative estimate? Any way you slice it, it's a huge amount of money that is probably not subject to taxation and is certainly not driving the American economy. As Fisti points out, if the very wealthy are offshoring their money to avoid taxes (or save it from a nightmarishly deregulated financial system) how are efforts to reduce their taxes going to have a positive effect on the economy?
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6189
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby Comrade » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:42 am

A thinking person cannot come to those conclusions at all from the evidence presented.

What exactly is the breakdown of these "rich" people by country and by dollar value?

If you know that, then you can compare tax policy amongst those countries with the most people seeking to shelter their wealth.

If you do that, AND you also compare those results with tax policy of countries with people NOT seeking to shelter wealth, THEN you might be able to come to a conclusion. That conclusion could be helpful in determining what effective tax policy MIGHT be.

However, since you are either not bright enough to too lazy to do that research, there is not much to talk about. I really don't mean to seem insulting, but it really should not be necessary to lay things out like this for educated people that have developed critical reasoning skills.

Therefore there is not much to discuss with this article alone. It doesn't tell you enough about anything to even start a discussion.
Comrade
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 10:53 am

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby O.J. » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:56 am

Comrade wrote:However, since you are either not bright enough to too lazy to do that research


If you're finished telling us how smart you are, could you translate this into English?
O.J.
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:13 am

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby wack wack » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:14 pm

Let's see... no proof that America is losing due to financial offshoring, so it isn't happening. However, there's no proof of voter fraud, but that's happening everywhere, all the time. Got it?

Not only are the rich different from you and me, they have never been average Americans, have no idea what it means to be an average American and are woefully ill-prepared and inappropriate to lead the American people.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby david cohen » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:07 pm

How do y'all define "the rich" and "the ultra-rich"? Assets in excess of __________?
david cohen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:48 pm

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:41 pm

What exactly is the breakdown of these "rich" people by country and by dollar value?

If you know that, then you can compare tax policy amongst those countries with the most people seeking to shelter their wealth.

If you do that, AND you also compare those results with tax policy of countries with people NOT seeking to shelter wealth, THEN you might be able to come to a conclusion. That conclusion could be helpful in determining what effective tax policy MIGHT be.


You're making this harder than necessary, insofar as I can get at what you're trying to say here.

Any US dollar belonging to a US citizen that's sheltered overseas (the dollar, not the citizen) is a dollar that is removed from the reckoning of that person's US taxes.

It is in the interests of the US treasury to have the number of those dollars to be as close to zero as possible. Our tax policy should reflect that reality. If we catch people moving money to other countries so it remains off their tax returns, we assess a penalty severe enough that keeping things legal is worthwhile for the taxpayer. We give our enforcement officials all the tools and backup they need to do the job.

Problem solved.

We aren't in the business of making our tax rate lower than anybody else's so no one tries to hide their money. (It wouldn't work at lower levels of income so why would it work at the upper levels?) That's not how the tax code is written and not how taxes have been collected historically in the US since forever. Instead, we use enforcement and penalties.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11855
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: The Rich Are Different From You And Me

Postby bdog » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:27 am

Problem solved until they start pulling a Denise Eisenberg Rich
bdog
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3309
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:26 am


Return to Headlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar