MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters 
Thursday, July 24, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 63.0° F  A Few Clouds
Collapse Photo Bar

20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?

20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:14 am

MPD is staffing 20 additional officers downtown this weekend in response to recent incidents, particularly at or around bar time, including several on the 600 block of University. Additional cops will be on foot, riding bikes and horses or in squad cars.

Makes me wonder why there was no similar response to incidents on Park St or Aberg? The city couldn't "afford" extra patrols to those areas. Instead, the city blamed and punished the business owners. What gives?
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2922
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby rabble » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:09 am

I think you could be a little more obtuse in the second paragraph. Or more rhetorical, whichever it is you're going for.

I don't think Noble and Soglin could be any more obvious about the double standards, though.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5995
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:29 am

More obtuse or rhetorical? What would that look like?

Seriously, though, is this due to the visibility downtown? It's not like there was a lack of press coverage of problems in other areas. Is it concern for the out-of-towners that frequent the area? Are we just concerned about the downtown image? School's out, so it can't be student-related, right?

If the city is blaming these incidents on the same or similar groups (see references to problems coming from other areas and allusion to these problems being based in troubled neighborhoods), is this just an effort to drive the problems back to the outlying areas? If it really is a whac-a-mole strategy, why not whack the mole when it pops up in other areas?
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2922
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby rabble » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:38 pm

I'm not sure. Might be I oversnarked. I'll work on that.

But yeah, it just might be possible that establishments patronized mostly by overprivileged snotty college students with rich parents are being treated differently than ones with a more blue collar clientelle.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5995
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby Detritus » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:42 pm

Maybe someone needs to lay it out in black and white. You know, stop coloring within the lines--quit with all the coded references.

Just a thought.
Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2352
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby rrnate » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:48 pm

I'll tell you what - spend some time on Park St. at 1:30 AM on a Saturday night, then, the next weekend, do the same thing on University.

Then, report back to us with your findings and consider yourself wise to the situation.
rrnate
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3656
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 6:33 pm
Location: Madison's Corporate Underbelly

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:01 pm

nate: Actually, I've done both (quite a few times). I think you'd be surprised by the results if you tried it yourself. Even as a painfully white (well, maybe not as much as you), raised-in-the-suburbs kind of guy, I wouldn't feel any safer on University. I think the available data on assaults downtown would support that.

So, what everyone wants to hear is that this is a racial thing, right? Or, at least, that the perpetrators are predominantly non-white, specifically black.
Fine, I think even the mayor and chief have all but explicitly stated that.

My point still stands, if the same people are causing similar problems in different areas, why not go after them similarly in all areas. Do you really think "the city" is just trying to push the problem out of downtown, back to the "troubled neighborhoods"? Or is this just the breaking point, in that they've tried to disperse the problem using other methods (tavern license restrictions and revocations) that didn't work. Now that the problem is visible in a "white area", it's time to throw more resources at it?

Is it really just the influence of the business owners? Or is there more at play?
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2922
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:17 pm

Astrit Buzi, owner of The Taco Shop, 604 University Ave., said that on weekends as many as 200 to 300 people gather on the block — most of them not patronizing any of the bars or eateries.

Read more: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... z21qetNlH2


This is part of the problem. They can't target a bar to shut down if the people aren't going to one.
Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4745
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby dave esmond » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:21 pm

Could it be that at any given time there's more people and bars on State St/University then on Park or Aberg? Therefore requiring a different approach?
dave esmond
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2565
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 4:15 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby rrnate » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:38 pm

dave esmond wrote:Could it be that at any given time there's more people and bars on State St/University then on Park or Aberg? Therefore requiring a different approach?


Yeah, this is what I'm getting at. Not sure how JMan didn't catch that, but my point is that there are a few hundred doofs wandering around outside on University every weekend. Not so on Park St. I don't think this is a racial thing at all - I think it's a critical mass thing.
rrnate
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3656
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 6:33 pm
Location: Madison's Corporate Underbelly

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:43 pm

Alright, my bad. That's not at all what I got from your proposal.
Perhaps you could have been a bit less cryptic.
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2922
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby rrnate » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:46 pm

jman111 wrote:Alright, my bad. That's not at all what I got from your proposal.
Perhaps you could have been a bit less cryptic.


If you've been down there, than you know what I'm talking about and it's not cryptic at all - Park St. never has the kinds of sidewalk density issues that University always does on the weekends near bar time. The increase in cops is directly tied to that in the statements and I fail to see how this is some kind of "racial double standard". It's literally an increase in police presence to deal with a huge amount of people.
rrnate
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3656
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 6:33 pm
Location: Madison's Corporate Underbelly

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:55 pm

Well, your original post seemed cryptic. Not at all clear that you were talking about crowds.
rrnate wrote:I'll tell you what - spend some time on Park St. at 1:30 AM on a Saturday night, then, the next weekend, do the same thing on University.

Then, report back to us with your findings and consider yourself wise to the situation.

Lots of things are different. In fact, depending upon which segment of Park Street (or University), crowds can vary quite a bit.

But anyway, is the prevailing opinion that, despite similar numbers of troublemakers, the large crowds of non-troublemakers make the difference.
Or is it the number of businesses (despite the fact that the businesses may not be involved). Can't realistically shut down multiple establishments, right? Pretty easy (apparently) to just shut down one.
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2922
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby dave esmond » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:59 pm

jman111 wrote:But anyway, is the prevailing opinion that, despite similar numbers of troublemakers, the large crowds of non-troublemakers make the difference.
Or is it the number of businesses (despite the fact that the businesses may not be involved). Can't realistically shut down multiple establishments, right? Pretty easy (apparently) to just shut down one.


Yep.

Different details. The troublemakers may be the same people but the rest of the situation is different.

Same reason the police respond to someone emptying the clip of an AK-47 differently then a couple of frat boys having a slap fight outside the KK.
dave esmond
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2565
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 4:15 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:04 pm

rrnate wrote:If you've been down there, than you know what I'm talking about and it's not cryptic at all - Park St. never has the kinds of sidewalk density issues that University always does on the weekends near bar time.

By the way, you were never outside of R Place on Park around 1:30 AM, right? There was some serious "sidewalk density" at those times.
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2922
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Next

Return to Town Vibe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar