MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters · Instagram 
Monday, September 22, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 52.0° F  Fair
Collapse Photo Bar

20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby Detritus » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:06 pm

jman111 wrote:
rrnate wrote:If you've been down there, than you know what I'm talking about and it's not cryptic at all - Park St. never has the kinds of sidewalk density issues that University always does on the weekends near bar time.

By the way, you were never outside of R Place on Park around 1:30 AM, right? There was some serious "sidewalk density" at those times.

I dunno. I think the student population is about the densest around.
Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2386
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby dave esmond » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:11 pm

jman111 wrote:
rrnate wrote:If you've been down there, than you know what I'm talking about and it's not cryptic at all - Park St. never has the kinds of sidewalk density issues that University always does on the weekends near bar time.

By the way, you were never outside of R Place on Park around 1:30 AM, right? There was some serious "sidewalk density" at those times.


I drove by more then once. Seemed like a normal bar letting out.

Difference being there weren't a dozen other bars near by letting out at the same time or mobs of non-bar goers milling about sharing the sidewalk.
dave esmond
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2566
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 4:15 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:20 pm

Well, the crowds tended to stay in the lot and around the side and back of the property, so not really "on the sidewalk". And there were plenty of non-bar patrons. I think if you look back at the complaints from the neighbors, the crowds outside the bar, especially late at night, were one the biggest concerns. Well, that and the shots being fired from said crowd.

So, not really a problem of density, but sheer numbers then (based on concentration of businesses)?
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3000
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby seemunkyz » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:26 pm

I think there are a few factors at play here:

1) It is all about where the money is. The Downtown area brings in a higher percentage of taxes and city revenue per capita, so of course that's where the money stays. Especially when these major sources of tax revenue are facing smaller sales due to people not coming Downtown because of safety issues.

2) While yes, there are some high-density areas of Park Street, the Downtown area has an overall higher density of incidents per area. The incidents taking place Downtown have been increasingly violent and hostile as well.

3) A lot of the people who come Downtown to cause trouble are from the Park St. and other areas, and so if you nip the problem Downtown, you are theoretically lessening the issues in other areas simply by getting people off the street.

4) The issues Downtown, while not new, are becoming more severe. While people used to congregate outside these bars, etc. to get into them, now people congregate outside just because it's the thing to do. Park St. and these other low-income areas have always been a point of interest, and can suffice with the current patrols (or so the MPD seems to think). One area where this argument can be made is the Midvale/Verona Rd. area, where a significant amount of police presence can already be found, with little effect. One could then argue that increasing patrol to an already highly patrolled area will have little overall effect. So really they are putting the extra money where they feel like it will have the most impact.

Do I think that any of these individually are justification for putting resources Downtown that could be used elsewhere? Not necessarily. But when you put them all together, one could argue that it's at least not a waste of money, even if it could be put elsewhere.
seemunkyz
Senior Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:31 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby dave esmond » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:37 pm

jman111 wrote:Well, the crowds tended to stay in the lot and around the side and back of the property, so not really "on the sidewalk".


True. Sorry for not being more detailed.

People would spill over into the lot next door of the building where we practiced also. And mill about on the street behind.

So no not "on the sidewalk". Just like people in the street or between buildings or in one of the parks on state street aren't on the sidewalk either.

It was still just one bar without a lot other businesses open that late in the neighborhood. Maybe Arbys but I think that was closed by 1:30. That's why it bothered the neighbors, it wasn't the norm of the neighborhood. If someone living on State St complained about the crowds that would be different because crowds are the norm there.
dave esmond
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2566
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 4:15 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby Meade » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:44 pm

seemunkyz wrote:1) It is all about where the money is. The Downtown area brings in a higher percentage of taxes and city revenue per capita, so of course that's where the money stays. Especially when these major sources of tax revenue are facing smaller sales due to people not coming Downtown because of safety issues.

seemunky is correct. You got into an incident around bar time on the 600 block of University? You didn't build that incident.

Government did.
Meade
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3341
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:45 pm

dave esmond wrote:If someone living on State St complained about the crowds that would be different because crowds are the norm there.

Which is kind of funny, since a loitering ordinance seems to be one of the leading proposals for dealing with the downtown problems.

Fuck off, Larry. Go shit somewhere else.
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3000
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:49 pm

So as not to offend you Larry, please disregard last transmission.
However, please move along.
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3000
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby seemunkyz » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:24 pm

So, I just did a little more digging on this issue, and have found our answer.

The extra patrol is being paid for by money from the Downtown Safety Initiative. Thus, the money being put forth is to be used Downtown only and can't be spent on areas like Park St., etc. Meaning the whole thing is a non-point.
seemunkyz
Senior Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:31 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby Meade » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:47 pm

seemunkyz wrote:The extra patrol is being paid for by money from the Downtown Safety Initiative. Thus, the money being put forth is to be used Downtown only and can't be spent on areas like Park St., etc. Meaning the whole thing is a non-point.

Where does the money come from? Downtown businesses?
Meade
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3341
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:48 pm

Oh, this Downtown Safety Initiative?
The city delivered $100,000 several years ago for a Downtown Safety Initiative that put extra police officers on duty weekend nights and cut down on the number of robberies, beatings and assaults, Gloede said. But funding was cut in half in recent city budgets, he said.

Mayor Paul Soglin has already vowed to restore funding for the initiative to $100,000, which would let police deploy a sergeant and six officers every weekend for the rest of the year. Discussions are continuing on a more expensive initiative, Gloede said.



Read more: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... z21rGowMGA
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3000
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:57 pm

Too bad we can't afford a "Troubled Neighborhood Safety Initiative".
I'll bet we could really use that.
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3000
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby Meade » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:58 pm

What makes you say we can't afford it? Just raise taxes, right? Easy!

Why should the Madison residents who selfishly stay home, instead of coming downtown to support the bars where the alcohol-related incidents are built, be allowed to free ride?

Soglin and City Council should pass an ordinance - call it The Affordable Incident Act - with an individual mandate which says that each resident of Madison must purchase 1 keg of beer per year. That keg will be taxed by the city to pay for the additional government police protection in the State Street Corridor. Any unused beer will be redistributed amongst the various bars before it goes flat.

In order to be progressive, waivers could be given to anyone with an income below, say, $10,000, children under 12, and new residents from Illinois and elsewhere who just need another month or two to get on their feet.

In fact, give them a waiver, a pickled hard-boiled egg, and an ice cold beer and they'll probably vote for Soglin and Council members the next time they're up for reelection.
Meade
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3341
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby rrnate » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:44 am

Cripes Meade - so many words, so little funny.
rrnate
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 6:33 pm
Location: Madison's Corporate Underbelly

Re: 20 extra cops on "State Street Corridor"

Postby sallybell » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:39 pm

Meade wrote:What makes you say we can't afford it? Just raise taxes, right? Easy!

Why should the Madison residents who selfishly stay home, instead of coming downtown to support the bars where the alcohol-related incidents are built, be allowed to free ride?


Ohmygod, don't even get me started on the cops and the fire department. They've only helped me out directly once, when I had that house fire a few years ago. I should only have to pay taxes for that one year. That other time, when the neighbor's property was on fire and I called 911 and the police and fire departments responded, contained the fire, and kept my parents' house from burning down? Geez, those neighbors were sure some selfish asshole free-riders.
sallybell
Senior Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:58 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Town Vibe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar