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For-profit higher education

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For-profit higher education

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:54 pm

Remember the Globe University (sic) thread? Then there is Herzing College (or are they calling themselves a university too?) and their unaccredited nursing program. Consider this a follow up.

Report blasts for-profit colleges
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby pjbogart » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:29 pm

As a general principle, attending a college that advertises at 1am during reruns of South Park is probably not a good idea.

You're more likely to get a job from Quest Chat. Literally.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby pattymcnutt » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:30 pm

I understand that not everyone had the opportunity to go to college right from high school and that working adults/parents need alternative options for higher education, but for-profit schools infuriate me. I worked really hard to get my bachelor's and master's degrees and I feel like degrees from those diploma mills cheapen everything I worked so hard for. I find it hard to believe that someone who does online classes from the University of Phoenix is getting the same education as I did. Yet they will walk away with the same degree on paper, but far less actual knowledge or experience.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby snoqueen » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:35 pm

I'm pretty sure prospective employers are aware of this.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby Cornbread » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:19 pm

snoqueen wrote:I'm pretty sure prospective employers are aware of this.

Depends upon the employer. If it's govt, just a piece of paper will do to knock one up a whole lotta pay grades. But then again, government has never recognized and rewarded superior performance, sort of like unions.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby fennel » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:47 pm

snoqueen wrote:I'm pretty sure prospective employers are aware of this.
I'm not so sanguine in that regard. See the mention of Peter Cappelli's book in a previously cited Atlantic article that touches on hiring practices.

I wonder if maybe hiring is too important to be left to Human Resources folks ..
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby pattymcnutt » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:37 pm

I think it depends on the profession (not whether it's a government or union job). I'm in education (technically a state job, though we don't have a union anymore), so I had to graduate from an accredited program to even get licensed and my continuing ed credits have specific requirements also. But my sister in law, who works in logistics for trucking companies, has an associates degree and is working on her bachelor's- all from University of Phoenix. Her employer considers that to be equivalent to a 4-year college degree. And every time she talks about "graduating from college," I cringe a little bit because in my mind, it's NOT the same thing.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby bdog » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:47 am

I probably would get more out of an online degree now than the in-person degree I got 25 years ago. I didn't apply myself very well back then.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby peripat » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:43 am

Most places really care more about the paper than anything else. Usually they use it to limit the number of people under consideration for a job or a promotion. I suppose if they really cared if workers knew anything they would come up with some kind of test of knowledge. A degree from a good school really doesn't prove anymore than an online one. I certainly knew people who never did their own work and had someone else take their exams (assume that was common since a lot of schools check IDs at the door now)
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby jman111 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:06 am

I'm reminded of what I was once told about college degrees:
They simply demonstrate one's ability to learn. They certainly don't ensure mastery/retention of any subject material.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby rabble » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:23 am

peripat wrote:Most places really care more about the paper than anything else. Usually they use it to limit the number of people under consideration for a job or a promotion. I suppose if they really cared if workers knew anything they would come up with some kind of test of knowledge. A degree from a good school really doesn't prove anymore than an online one. I certainly knew people who never did their own work and had someone else take their exams (assume that was common since a lot of schools check IDs at the door now)

According to everything I've been reading about hiring practices lately, the most important criteria is that the applicant already have a job. The HR offices are so swamped with applications and so short of staff that they're doing everything they can to get the piles smaller, and one easy way is to eliminate everybody who's unemployed. That still leaves a nice stack of qualified people with a proven attendance record.

Then they're going for the ones who'll work for the least pay. Then they're checking suitability. Not many of those articles talked about what degrees they were looking for.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby peripat » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:02 pm

If it really worked like that (lowest bid in)most people wouldn't bother with the time and expense of college- on line or in person. A lot of jobs require a degree- doubt they care where it is from- just as a way of limiting the number of applicants. A few years ago someone with a degree applying for a receptionist or warehouse job might have been rejected as overqualified. Right now the employer probably isn't going to look at anyone without one (or else expensive experience), just because they don't have to. It is true that they don't want to pay anything, but they want to believe they are really getting a good value.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby seemunkyz » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:05 pm

The impression I get when comparing my University degree to friends of mine who have attended for-profit educators, is that the for-profit degrees are very specific. My general degree gives me several options for jobs, as it was already said that it is a measure of one's ability to learn.

I have a friend, however, that got a degree from Herzing. He has a job that pays him well, but if his field ever cut back or he lost his job he would be limited to that one type of work. It seems like the for-profit degrees don't give you the same flexibility as four year university.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby rabble » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:35 pm

peripat wrote:If it really worked like that (lowest bid in)most people wouldn't bother with the time and expense of college- on line or in person.

It takes a while for things like that to sink in. You have to hunt for that information, it isn't making the news because they'd rather it wasn't well known but in many if not most companies, that really is what's happening.

I'm not going to hunt down every article I've read on the subject. But there's plenty more out there.
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Re: For-profit higher education

Postby peripat » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:48 pm

Current employment is just the latest way businesses try to weed out applicants. Unnecessary degrees and irrelevant experience have been around for ages but they all factor in. HR departments don't want to sort through thousands of applications- so they try to keep the number down using unnecessary criteria and then sort those down further using current employment status. I can sympathize with their problem, but there oughta be a law...(when they actually get around to interviewing they will add factors like height and degree of attractiveness)
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