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Mitt Romney 2012

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby rabble » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:58 pm

Stella_Guru wrote:So I expect the Mormon multimillionaire to soon woo the religiofascists with some kind of divine will human destiny bullshit.

You're usually spot on with your predictions and insights, Stella, so I hope you won't take it too negatively that I respond to this one with "Gee. Ya think?"

I don't think he has much of a chance but he has absolutely no chance at all if he can't pull the fundies on board. Of course he has to throw God's weight around.
Last edited by rabble on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby DCB » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:59 pm

rabble wrote: I don't think he has much of a chance but he has absolutely no chance at all if he can't pull the fundies on board. Of course he has to throw God's weight around.

I'm curious as to how the Romney campaign will try to spin this: our guy, while not exactly Christian, is way more Christian-friendly than allegedly-Christian-but-secretly-Muslim Obama. I'm guessing they have a warehouse of dog whistles in many different keys.
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby Stella_Guru » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:06 am

DCB wrote:
rabble wrote: I don't think he has much of a chance but he has absolutely no chance at all if he can't pull the fundies on board. Of course he has to throw God's weight around.

I'm curious as to how the Romney campaign will try to spin this: our guy, while not exactly Christian, is way more Christian-friendly than allegedly-Christian-but-secretly-Muslim Obama. I'm guessing they have a warehouse of dog whistles in many different keys.

But Rabble, the "fun" is watching how he does it.
"As you come here and you see the GDP per capita, for instance, in Israel which is about $21000, and compare that with the GDP per capita just across the areas managed by the Palestinian authority, which is more like $10,000 per capita, you notice such a dramatically stark differenc in economic vitality." Mitt recently in Israel.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32023.htm
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:16 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:The Koch brothers[/url] are spending millions (more) for a pro-Romney, anti-Obama TV ad campaign.


Speaking of the Koch Brothers, this kind of interesting:

www.owsgeneralassembly.org
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:22 pm

DCB wrote:allegedly-Christian-but-secretly-Muslim Obama.


So are you saying that Obama is not Muslim, at least technically?

I would be the last to say that he is Muslim in any meaningful way but the fact of the matter is, his father was Muslim and that makes him technically Muslim whether he likes it or not.

If he has formally renounced Islam, I am unaware of it. If he has, that would make him an apostate and subject to killing under Sharia law by any Muslim.

I really don't care about Romney's religion, or Obama's, for that matter. If Romney is the candidate, he must lose. I don't think we could survive 4 years under him.

I am not looking forward to 4 more years of Obama but better him than Romney.

John Henry
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby pjbogart » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:08 pm

For a smart guy you sure say some stupid shit, John Henry.
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:05 am

pjbogart wrote:For a smart guy you sure say some stupid shit, John Henry.


So are you saying that Obama is not (technically) a Muslim?

Am I incorrect or merely inconvenient?

As I said, not a Muslim in any meaningful sense of the word. I don't believe he is a practicing Muslim. I don't recall ever seeing anything to lead me to believe that he was ever a practicing Muslim.

John Henry
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby jman111 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:38 am

Is this the "technicality" to which you refer?

Cultural Muslim
Cultural Muslims are religiously unobservant, secular or irreligious individuals who still identify with the Muslim culture due to family background, personal experiences, or the social and cultural environment in which they grew up.

Malise Ruthven (2000) discussed the terms "cultural Muslim" and "nominal Muslim" as follows:
There is, however, a secondary meaning to Muslim which may shade into the first. A Muslim is one born to a Muslim father who takes on his or her parents' confessional identity without necessarily subscribing to the beliefs and practices associated with the faith, just as a Jew may describe him- or herself as Jewish without observing the Halacha.
...
It should be noted, however, that this secular definition of Muslim (sometimes the terms cultural Muslim or nominal Muslim are used) is very far from being uncontested.
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby jman111 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:48 am

The seed of Muslim is passed through the father?
Rated Mostly False
According to family accounts, Obama's paternal grandfather Onyango Obama was a Muslim. But it's not clear that his biological father, Barack Hussein Obama Sr., ever practiced the religion. By all accounts, Obama's Kenyan father was an atheist more interested in economics and government than religion.

But when we looked into Graham's statement that "the seed of Muslim is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother," we found a good bit of evidence to the contrary.

We consulted several reference books on the Islamic religion, interviewed academic experts and consulted with Islamic groups. None of the sources we checked endorsed Graham's view as completely accurate.


Been reading Debbie Schussel, JH?
THIS Debbie Schussel?
Debbie Schlussel (born April 9, 1969) is an American attorney, film critic, political commentator, and a conservative blogger who focuses particularly on Islam and American Muslims. Her writing frequently targets the largely Muslim population of the Detroit suburb of Dearborn, which she refers to as "Dearbornistan".[1] Her columns are often provocative and controversial, specifically those detailing what she considers the unsavory elements of Islam, the objectionable activities of American Muslims, illegal immigrants, as well as liberal and “faux-conservative” politicians.

The main focus of Schlussel's journalism is targeting what she regards as negative elements of American Islamic society.




johnfajardohenry wrote:Am I incorrect or merely inconvenient?

I'm gonna say you're incorrect.
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby rabble » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:03 am

Huh. From that politifact article:
And even this definition is problematic since President Obama's father did not identify as a Muslim when Obama was born, said Ken Garden, a professor of religion at Tufts University who studies Islam. "If Obama's father became an atheist, then he would not have been a Muslim at the time of Obama's birth, so Obama would not have been, even technically, a Muslim," said Garden.

Oh, these damn technicalities. They are reprehensible.
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby jman111 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:38 am

rabble wrote:Oh, these damn technicalities. They are reprehensible.
and "inconvenient"
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:40 am

jman111 wrote:Is this the "technicality" to which you refer?

Cultural Muslim


No. I don't think he is a cultural Muslim. I've never seen anything that leads me to believe that he has ever identified as a Muslim in any way.

John Henry
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby HawkHead » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:41 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:
pjbogart wrote:For a smart guy you sure say some stupid shit, John Henry.


So are you saying that Obama is not (technically) a Muslim?

Am I incorrect or merely inconvenient?

As I said, not a Muslim in any meaningful sense of the word. I don't believe he is a practicing Muslim. I don't recall ever seeing anything to lead me to believe that he was ever a practicing Muslim.

John Henry


Yes, we should judge and label every human being on who his parents were/are on the day they were born. :oops:
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:48 am

Nixon was born and raised as a Quaker. Just don't tell the Vietnamese that.
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Re: Mitt Romney 2012

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:01 am

jman111 wrote:Been reading Debbie Schussel, JH?


I don't recall ever having heard of her.

My understanding of Obama being technically Muslim is based on having read the Koran and written a research paper on Islam in a comparative religion class. (more years ago than I care to admit)

My recollection plus subsequent casual reading over the years is that regardless of whether Obama's father was an atheist or not, Islam still passes through him to the son.

Once one becomes a Muslim, as I understand it, it cannot be renounced. Thus, if the grandfather, or even the great or great-great grandfather were Muslim, that flows down infinitely through the generations.

Being an atheist does not make one non-Muslim as I understand it. Did Obama's father ever renounce Islam? Was he an apostate? If so, then perhaps the chain was broken. But I don't think he was an apostate. Even if he was, I am still not clear that the chain was broken.

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