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Sikh temple shooting

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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby rabble » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:13 pm

Huh. You're disputing the fact that there's a possibility of failure when trying to steal a cop's gun.

And we know this because some cops were killed with their own guns, which of course means that every time somebody tried to take a cop's gun, they succeeded.

So it's just as easy to steal a gun from a cop as it is to buy one.

Certainly cheaper, I'll give you that.
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby admin » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:20 pm

Please move general gun talk into The Gun Thread. If this thread continues to address general gun issues, we'll either lock it or merge it.
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:11 pm

Is there a law that says every asshole from Wisconsin has to look like this?


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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby pjbogart » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:29 pm

Honestly, I don't think the Sikh Temple shooting had anything to do with guns. There was no fancy weaponry and no crazed lunatic with a rap sheet ten feet long. Even if we had much tighter gun control laws, it wouldn't have stopped something like this.

The problem here is intolerance. The kind of intolerance that has become almost fashionable these days. Two weeks ago we were arguing about Michele Bachmann's foray into McCarthyism and today we're reading about some gunman walking into a temple and killing six people before being gunned down by police. But the xenophobia and religious intolerance that this killer was expressing isn't some sort of fringe lunacy, you can see and hear it everyday from FoxNews, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, mainstream politicians and even right here on the Daily Page in Ned and Fester's "Enemies Among Us" thread.

This intolerance was not whipped up to the level of hysteria by accident. It's not that Michele Bachman (or Ned Flanders, for that matter) wants crazed gunmen to shoot up Sikh Temples, it's that she doesn't believe that the vitriol that she uses as a political tool will lead to such incidents. But it does. Especially when it's so pervasive in right-wing media, the same hateful message being pounded hour after hour and day after day. FoxNews didn't push their "not really a Mosque at not really Ground Zero" story for a month because they hate Muslims, they did it for ratings and political points. If a few people get killed along the way, so be it.

This crime was not committed by a 9mm handgun, it was committed by a culture of intolerance that no longer feels the need to hide.
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby fennel » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:27 pm

pjbogart wrote:This crime was not committed by a 9mm handgun, it was committed by a culture of intolerance that no longer feels the need to hide.
Right ... but with a 9mm handgun.
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby snoqueen » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:29 pm

Thanks for posting that, pj. I'd been trying all day to find a way to say this is not about guns or gun control but about hate. The guy could have done the same thing with a car bomb.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/2010 ... 32146.html

That link is to a short article about the killer's rock band, called End Apathy. The band was with a label called "Label 56" who had advertised his music on their web page. Today they took down their material about End Apathy and posted this notice:

"Label 56 is very sorry to hear about the tragedy in Wisconsin and our thoughts are with the families and friends of those who are affected," the statement reads. "We have worked hard over the years to promote a positive image and have posted many articles encouraging people to take a positive path in life, to abstain from drugs, alcohol, and just general behavior that can affect ones life negatively. Likewise we have never sought attention by using 'shock value'/symbols and ideology that are generally labeled as such. With that being said, all images and products related to End Apathy have been removed from our site. We do not wish to profit from this tragedy financially or with publicity."

"In closing please do not take what Wade did as honorable or respectable and please do not think we are all like that."


A good enough statement (I can only assume they are genuinely shocked and horrified) but where were Page's fellow musicians, associates, and possible friends for the last year? Did he cook all this up in his own head and never say a word to anybody? Did anybody call him on the direction he was taking?

Maybe they did, and it didn't work.

Still, that's what we have to encourage: calling people on hate speech, violent talk and imagery, or actions that veer too close to destruction in various ways. Make sure it's understood NOT to be an honorable or respectable way to talk or act.

At the root, I think that's why I keep on bickering with Dman on these pages. I don't get him as one of the haters. I want to be clear about that, and I noticed he took a break and returned with a toned-down message last month which I found thoughtful. Still I do believe the whole ideology of promoting guns (and fantastic images of how they can supposedly fix things) as the solution to society's violence problem is a form of violent imagery. Unstable or immature people read and feed on that stuff. There is no bright line between good gun guys and bad gun guys, not when we live with so much social chaos and complexity today. We can easily imagine Mr. Page thought he was one of the good guys, some righteous race warrior in his own ideology, doing everyone else a favor they'd only appreciate later on.

We need to promote solutions that deprecate the use of violence of any kind, not glorify it -- across the board. That doesn't mean we try strict prohibition, which only creates a black market (or a market in car bombs). Realism, not denial, is required. We don't have slick solutions at hand, but we need to seek them by all possible means, identify and give respect to those who set a good example, and speak up to those who do not.

That said, I thought the Sikhs today set a good example of dignity, no revenge talk or blaming, and trying to explain their community to the public.
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby Cornbread » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:04 pm

[posted by rabble]
Wade also tried to buy goods from the National Alliance, a neo-Nazi group, in 2000, she said.

Very very interesting. So how did that race pimping group (the southern 'poverty' law whatever) know that?

We are still digging through our files," she said.

Trash digging through trash, no doubt?

A devout muslim ("fundamentalist" anyone?) murdered 13 unarmed Americans and wounded 29 others.
Is that a "hate" crime?
Was he "racist"?
Where were the usual race/religion pimps when that happened?
Ooops, must not have been any cash/votes for them there.....
Last edited by Cornbread on Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby Cornbread » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:09 pm

narcoleptish wrote:Is there a law that says every asshole from Wisconsin has to look like this?

I think you just hit the upper thresh hold of stupid leftist.
Now that's saying sumptin!

BTW, if he would have lived and gotten older, he may have looked like this:

Image

Do you just hate hair challenged white people or are you just, well, a leftist?
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby Cornbread » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:11 pm

fennel wrote:
pjbogart wrote:This crime was not committed by a 9mm handgun, it was committed by a culture of intolerance that no longer feels the need to hide.
Right ... but with a 9mm handgun.


and he was killed with an "assault rifle"! *GASP* OMG!
Why do police need high capacity assault rifles!!!!!!!

Ya'll sure are enter-fluking-taining to normal people......
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby Meade » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:15 pm

narcoleptish wrote:Is there a law that says every asshole from Wisconsin has to look like this?


Image


Image
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:21 pm

It seems that a disproportionate # of serial killers/mass murders, hold right wing views. 2/3rds to 3/4ths or something like that.
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby Beaver » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:22 pm

admin wrote:Please move general gun talk into The Gun Thread. If this thread continues to address general gun issues, we'll either lock it or merge it.

The gun thread is 40 pages long. Isn't' that enough? Wouldn't it be better to start a new thread or use this one?
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:35 pm

Cornbread wrote:
I think you just hit the upper thresh hold of stupid


That's a keeper.


I wish whoever is remodeling your bathroom would get the job done so you could stop shitting here every day. Maybe you should tell them to get the job Left if they can't get it right.
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby Igor » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:24 pm

narcoleptish wrote:Is there a law that says every asshole from Wisconsin has to look like this?


Image


Mark Pocan says hi.
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Re: Sikh temple shooting

Postby Meade » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:24 pm

Vladimir Lenin says, Привет.

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