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The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Remember_Me » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:29 pm

Just to clarify, that was a goof post.

Although it wouldn't surprise me.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:21 pm

So, do you think he'll run, or stay?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:20 pm

snoqueen wrote:So, do you think he'll run, or stay?


He'll walk.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:27 pm

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby rabble » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:11 pm

Okay.

I never saw that comin.
An Orlando woman now in her mid-20s told investigators that George Zimmerman, who is charged with second-degree murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin, molested her over a decade, beginning when they were both young children, according to an audio tape released on Monday.


In the other tape, the woman said the Zimmerman family had talked about race often and disparaged African-Americans. Mr. Zimmerman’s family said “they only like black people if they act like white people,” she said.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Peanutbutter » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:18 pm

$100 million over 5 years! In-fucking-credible!!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1258 ... of-the-nfl
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:26 pm

rabble wrote:Okay.

I never saw that comin.
An Orlando woman now in her mid-20s told investigators that George Zimmerman, who is charged with second-degree murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin, molested her over a decade, beginning when they were both young children, according to an audio tape released on Monday.


In the other tape, the woman said the Zimmerman family had talked about race often and disparaged African-Americans. Mr. Zimmerman’s family said “they only like black people if they act like white people,” she said.


Ya, that's pretty weird and random. I don't see any relevance in this case except the racial aspects although. I guess it can bring up character which he doesn't seem to be scoring very well on.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Remember_Me » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:25 pm

An 8 year old child molester?

How does that work?

She sounds like a loon and her oddball comments probably just raised $100,000 for Zimmerman from his supporters.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:33 pm

Remember_Me wrote:An 8 year old child molester?

How does that work?


I don't think you have to be over 18 to "molest" someone. I don't think the article ever called him a "child molester" so it is very possible he molested her.

From Wikipedia:

Sexual abuse, also referred to as molestation, is the forcing of undesired sexual behavior by one person upon another.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:04 am

The saga continues, although it might all be over soon.

Zimmerman will seek 'stand your ground' hearing

Attorneys for the neighborhood watch volunteer charged in the death of an unarmed teen say they'll seek a "stand your ground" hearing that could lead to criminal charges being dismissed.

A statement posted Thursday on the website for George Zimmerman's legal team says evidence released by prosecutors shows "clear support for a strong claim of self-defense."
...
If a judge rules the evidence fits the conditions of "stand your ground," the criminal charges would be dismissed and Zimmerman would be immune from civil action in the shooting.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby HawkHead » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:59 am

This is what I don't understand about the stand your ground law.

Mr.X is mad at Mr. Y and verbally confronts him. Mr. Y feels threatened and punches Mr.X. Now Mr. X, who had no intention of a physical confrontation, fears for his life. He has just been assaulted by Mr. Y. Mr. X pulls his gun. Mr. Y pulls his gun. Both men start shooting. Either Mr. X or Mr. Y dies from a gunshot wound. Both men can claim the stand your ground rule in the killing of the other and not get charged with murder.

That is how I would read the law. If that is a possible outcome of a law that either party could kill the other and not be charged with a crime, then the law in question sucks.

This leads to other questions. Other than mass murder or "hunting" someone down to kill them isn't there always a fear that the other person may harm you? To me this law almost justifies any killing but 1st degree premeditated murder.

To get to the Trevon Martin shooting, if you are walking in your own neighborhood and a unknown car is following you and you feel threatened by that vehicle you are allowed to kill the driver. This doesn't seem right to me.

If you are following someone in your neighborhood who you don't know (I certianly don't know everyone that lives in my neighborhood) and he is "dressed" a certain way and you are fearful that he might hurt you (he's hiding in the bushes or running from the "strange" car following him) you are allowed to kill him. That doesn't seem right to me either.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby rabble » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:12 am

Almost but not quite. Remember that retired firefighter who brought a gun when he stood in his neighbor's driveway to complain about the noise? He did everything he learned in the stand your ground training session and they still found him guilty. Apparently you can't stand on someone else's ground and kill him, even in Texas.

Last I knew he got something like life. Or was it forty years? Whatever, it was way more than I thought he'd get.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby HawkHead » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:48 am

I am glad that there are some limits to the law. I do not remember the case you mentioned.

In the above situation, what if the confrontation occured on a neutral site? Like walking on a sidewalk in the neighborhood.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby snoqueen » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:53 am

It seems DA's and courts are just as conflicted about how this law applies as anyone else. Upthread you'll find at least one link to an article about how every jurisdiction in Florida is working out their own interpretation, some quite different from others. (Either I posted it or I replied to it -- can't remember any more.) It's the same other places. In Florida, apparently gangs and other "usual suspects" are playing the thing for all it's worth.

I agree with what you said (HH) -- it reads pretty much like a license to kill at will and claim afterward you felt "threatened." Evidently some killers are reading it the same way. After that it's up to whatever jurisdiction you're in, who the DA is, how much spare time they have, and other factors that have little or nothing to do with the actual rendering of justice.

The limits of the law aren't part of the law itself but are being found, in a messy and corpse-littered way, by juries, courts, and public officials. Maybe it's always like that, but this is an unusually untidy example.

All we know now is the whole thing is headed for the Supreme Court at some point.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:10 pm

snoqueen wrote:All we know now is the whole thing is headed for the Supreme Court at some point.

Maybe, but only if a federal issue is involved.
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