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Smart Water Meters

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Smart Water Meters

Postby Shorty » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:34 pm

An Isthmus editorial about Smart Water Meters says you can opt out by calling the city at 264-5323. I called today but got the busy tone. Maybe it is off the hook on weekends. Will try again during the week.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Shorty » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:08 pm

stopsmartmeterswisconsin.wordpress.com says the phone to call is 266-4641. I will try that this week.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Stebben84 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:20 pm

Why
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Dairylander » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:07 am

Stebben84 wrote:Why

Have you ever wondered why there is an "acceptable" level of arsenic and cyanide in our drinking water?
In high doses: proven killers. But in low doses, the negative health effects are so slow and subtle that they can't be proven, so it's deemed harmless.
It's the same for electromagnetic radiation. In high doses it's shown to have negative health effects. For example, the reduction in milk production on dairy farms when high voltage power lines are installed.
In low doses, however, it's nearly impossible to prove the negative health effects from EMFs because they are so subtle.
Some of us choose to avoid the risk, however low it may be, by opting out of having a radio frequency device installed in our homes.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Mean Scenester » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:46 am

Dairylander wrote:Some of us choose to avoid the risk, however low it may be, by opting out of having a radio frequency device installed in our homes.

So you don't own a radio then?

Cordless phone? Remote control device? Wireless internet? Microwave oven?

Just curious where one draws the line with this flavor of paranoia. Don't look now, but there is, in all probability, a cell tower parked right over your ass.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:55 am

I've always been concerned about electromagnetic radiation and may opt out for the hell of it, but like scenester said, EVERYone around you has every possible radiating device going 24/7 so it's kind of a moot point.

Your cell phone against your head is the highest amount you're going to get so you can err on the side of caution by using a headset.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Dairylander » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:26 am

Our house has no cordless phone, no wi-fi, and definitely no microwave.
I don't have control over radio or cell phone towers in the neighborhood, but I hope to retain the right to what is or isn't installed in my own home.

The "moot point" argument is flawed logic.
That's like saying that since the drinking water already has a bunch of chemicals in it, I may as well as well drink out of lead beer stein.

Another good cellphone tip is to always use the speaker function. The radiation decreases dramatically with just a few inches of distance.

And it's not paranoia, it's just an attempt to limit exposure. I don't walk around wearing a tin foil hat, but I do turn my cell phone off when I'm not using it.

Image
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:44 am

Are the meters continuously transmitting, or does it only happen at certain intervals? With electric smart meters, I can see some need for near-instant response time, because conditions on the grid change very fast. I can't imagine the same sort of urgency being required for water infrastructure, although I could be wrong. What if they only sent a signal once an hour? Once a day? Only when the meter reader came around?

This website says that the transmissions will be "daily", but I'm not sure if that means once daily or multiple times daily.

Dairylander - no microwave? I wonder if you don't open yourself up to even greater risks (e.g. kitchen fire from stovetop cooking) by opting out of occasional use of a microwave oven (which are extremely unrisky as long as they are not broken or modified). I'm not trying to indict your cooking safety skills at all, which might be pro-level, but no one is 100% perfect. If you are 99.999% perfect at not starting kitchen fires, but microwaves are 99.9999% perfect at not giving people cancer, then microwaves win.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:54 am

Dairylander wrote:Have you ever wondered why there is an "acceptable" level of arsenic and cyanide in our drinking water?
In high doses: proven killers. But in low doses, the negative health effects are so slow and subtle that they can't be proven, so it's deemed harmless.
There is likely some degree of economic tradeoff that determines why there are trace amounts of all sorts of stuff in our water. Filtration to higher orders of magnitude requires exponentially increasing costs (in general). If actuarial experts determine that the trace amounts of cyanide and arsenic in our water might kill one person every 25 years (more likely, they will reduce the lifetimes of X people by 1/X average lifetimes), but the machinery to remove those trace poisons for the entire water supply will cost $10m annually (thus $250m over 25 years, ignoring inflation), then they don't install the machinery.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Dairylander » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:01 am

The microwave oven issue is more about nutrient loss.
If you microwave or boil food, it loses a significant amount of vitamins.
Steaming is the only way.
Actually, eating raw is best, steaming is next best.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722699/

http://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/processing
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:11 am

Dairylander wrote:The microwave oven issue is more about nutrient loss.
That makes sense if you are eating just a bunch of steamed vegetables all the time. But what about things other than leafy brassica varieties? What about oatmeal? What about reheating leftovers that were already cooked by another method (thus, their nutrients were already lost)?

I know that microwaves aren't the best for cooking anything, but they are very efficient, fast, and versatile, so they win on balance, in my opinion, at least to the extent that they are worth having in the house. Maybe you are short on space, I dunno.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby fennel » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:16 am

Is it possible to opt out from the monthly billing cycle?
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Dairylander » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:40 am

ArturoBandini wrote:I know that microwaves aren't the best for cooking anything, but they are very efficient, fast, and versatile.


I'm one of those guys in his yard sweating behind a push reel lawn mower, so those adjectives you listed are lost on me...
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Endo Rockstar » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 am

This is by far my favorite conspiracy theory in Madison right now.

Full disclosure: I live in a Faraday Cage.

-Dan Motor
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:35 am

Endo Rockstar wrote:This is by far my favorite conspiracy theory in Madison right now.
No shit. I'm munching on the popcorn my cell phone cooked while I read this.

Dairylander wrote:...the negative health effects are so slow and subtle that they can't be proven, so it's deemed harmless.
Anything is harmful in high enough doses. But if you have to drink, say, outrageously large amounts of water to begin feeling any harmful effects from its impurities, isn't it simpler just to call it harmless? Isn't it OK to note that putting a bag of rubberbands in your lap is harmless, or do you really need to add the caveat "unless it weighs enough to crush you"?

Dairylander wrote:It's the same for electromagnetic radiation.
Not all electromagnetic radiation is the same. It's a spectrum, after all. Science has a pretty solid understanding of electromagnetism and which kinds are harmful at what doses and which are not. It's all well and good if you want to worry about shit that really can't harm you (e.g. radio waves, in any dose you'll ever be exposed to) but why you gotta go around scaring everybody else?

Dairylander wrote:Some of us choose to avoid the risk, however low it may be, by opting out of having a radio frequency device installed in our homes.
There is no way for you to "opt out" of radio frequencies constantly bombarding you and your home. They're everywhere and yes, the tiny extra amount from a smart meter is negligible. It's like adding a single additional rubber band to the bag on your lap. If that was the one that was gonna definitively crush you, you were already kinda screwed.

Overall human health and life expectancy have been steadily increasing since we began constantly exposing ourselves to radio signals of our own creation. Why should that be if Dairylander's fears are true?
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