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Smart Water Meters

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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:42 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Overall human health and life expectancy have been steadily increasing since we began constantly exposing ourselves to radio signals of our own creation. Why should that be if Dairylander's fears are true?
C'mon man, correlation != causation. I know you know.

edit: since I'm the pedant here, I feel the need to point out that correlation can be linked with causation, but not necessarily.
Last edited by ArturoBandini on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:52 am

BTW, to my mind, the strangest thing about this thread isn't any of Dairylander's fears, it's this:
ArturoBandini wrote:no microwave?

This is really that shocking to you, Arturo? I mean, italics and everything?
And talk about strange fears.* You use a microwave at least partially to avoid the risk of fire? I'd never even considered it as a "safer" way to cook. I always thought it was about convenience. I almost never use mine, by the way. In fact, I use it so rarely that there's almost no chance I'll replace it if it breaks.

*Full disclosure: I am afraid of spiders. But note that I don't go around advocating that everyone else should be too.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:01 pm

You use a microwave at least partially to avoid the risk of fire? I'd never even considered it as a "safer" way to cook.
I use a microwave primarily for convenience as well, but that doesn't mean it isn't safer than a range, oven, or deep fat turkey fryer. While they're no solar oven, I'd add that microwaves are pretty energy efficient too, which is a concern for some people, including me.

If you don't have a microwave because you don't often cook foods suitable for microwaving, or because you don't like the way it zaps nutrients in your broccoli, that's fine, you're just missing out on a world of convenience and hot/cold spots in frozen bean burritos. If you don't use a microwave because you are afraid that it is going to give you skin cancer, that's dumb.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:06 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:C'mon man, correlation != causation. I know you know.
And I know you know that if radio waves did, in fact, cause cancer, this should show up as increased cases of cancer in the medical histories of people with higher-than-average exposure rates, just as nuclear plant workers have demonstrably higher cancer rates when compared to people who lacked similar exposure to nuclear radiation. That observation doesn't in-and-of-itself prove the claim that nuclear radiation causes cancer, but I think you'd agree that given what else we know, it would be very surprising if we saw a different result.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:12 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:I use a microwave primarily for convenience as well, but that doesn't mean it isn't safer than a range, oven, or deep fat turkey fryer.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying I've never thought about it before. I can't remember the last time I worried about a kitchen fire, no matter what cooking method I was using. There is a fire extinguisher in my kitchen, so I guess I thought about it at least once (well, twice, 'cuz I've replaced it once.) Great, now I'm gonna worry!
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Michael Patrick » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:15 pm

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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:18 pm

I am really bad about putting things on the stove or in the oven then going outside to do something and forgetting about the cooking. I haven't started an actual kitchen fire, but things have become pretty smoky/crispy for me. At least with a microwave, as long as I don't add an extra digit to the starting time, I can count on not carbonizing my entire meal by inattention.

It is highly unlikely that you will start your kitchen on fire, so don't worry any more than is warranted by the extremely small (but still extant) degree of risk presented by kitchen fires.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:20 pm

Dairylander wrote:The microwave oven issue is more about nutrient loss.


So I read that article and found this interesting:

A microwave oven (LG Electronics, Tianjin Appliances Co., Ltd., Tianjin, China) at full power (1000 W) for 5 min was used for microwaving. 200 g of broccoli were placed in a plate and 10 ml water was added to prevent broccoli from being burned during cooking.


There was nutritional loss because they placed the vegetables in water. You can get a "steamer" for the microwave that would help to preserve many of those nutrients. I've recently started cooking corn in the microwave and it is great, fast, and you don't have to boil it hence saving nutrients and your consumption of energy. This helps reduce your carbon footprint.

The water meters have been studied to help reduce the amount of water that we use. I like the idea of monthly payments and my ability to find out how much water I use on a regular basis.

Dairylander wrote:but I hope to retain the right to what is or isn't installed in my own home.


So did you pick out your electric meter from Walmart or Target?
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:23 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:And I know you know that if radio waves did, in fact, cause cancer, this should show up as increased cases of cancer in the medical histories of people with higher-than-average exposure rates...
You said "overall" rates of life expectancy, which brings along a host of variables that we aren't controlling for. Overall life expectancy could increase due to other factors while deaths due to cell-phone induced brain cancer skyrocket (hypothetically speaking, of course).
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:25 pm

Dairylander wrote:but I hope to retain the right to what is or isn't installed in my own home.
Turret-mounted fully-automatic machine gun?
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Michael Patrick » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:27 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:It is highly unlikely that you will start your kitchen on fire, so don't worry any more than is warranted by the extremely small (but still extant) degree of risk presented by kitchen fires.


Cooking fires still keeping Madison firefighters busy

Cooking fires are the most prevalent type of fire call the Madison Fire Department gets, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down.

Firefighters in the city answered three calls for cooking fires during the weekend, all involving hot oil catching fire in pans on stovetops.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:31 pm

Michael Patrick wrote:Cooking fires still keeping Madison firefighters busy
Cooking fires are the most prevalent type of fire call the Madison Fire Department gets, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down.

Firefighters in the city answered three calls for cooking fires during the weekend, all involving hot oil catching fire in pans on stovetops.
Wonder how often they respond to a microwave-based fire? 8) To defend my use of "highly unlikely", the vast majority of Madison households did not experience cooking fires worthy of calling the fire department in recent memory, thankfully.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby Dairylander » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:58 pm

Stebben84 wrote:So did you pick out your electric meter from Walmart or Target?

I think you meant water meter?
Regardless, I purchased a home with existing analog meters and would like to keep them.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby ilikebeans » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:10 pm

Endo Rockstar wrote:This is by far my favorite conspiracy theory in Madison right now.

It's not just the liberal side of things-- I was flipping through the dial somewhere around Beaver Dam, and hit some right-wing talk show dealing with smart meters. Naturally they didn't like the concept either, but it wasn't for health reasons. The host was pushing the concept that since the water utility could monitor your usage, that would lead to the government stepping in and rationing your water usage against your will.

Now that I think about it, is that really so far-fetched, especially if our droughts worsen over the years? And, is that necessarily a bad thing?

Microwaves-- Decades ago, my grandmother refused to use the one we got for her because she was convinced it would mess with her pacemaker. We thought she was nuts (in a good way). This was way before the internet and The Straight Dope, but sure enough:

"In the early days of microwave ovens and cardiac pacemakers, there was a real possibility that a leaky oven with a significant electromagnetic field being emitted could interfere with operation of a pacemaker with an unshielded lead," reads one typical bit of advice (Occupational Medicine Forum, Journal of Occupational Medicine, 1992). "Both problems have since been corrected." The U.S. standard for microwave ovens limits energy leakage to five milliwatts per square centimeter at a distance of five centimeters, and cardiac pacemakers now have shielded leads.
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Re: Smart Water Meters

Postby snoqueen » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:42 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Dairylander wrote:but I hope to retain the right to what is or isn't installed in my own home.
Turret-mounted fully-automatic machine gun?


You need to be over in the Gun Thread for that.
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