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Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

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Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:05 pm

In 2011, Wisconsin state spending quietly hit a milestone: For the first time, the state budgeted more taxpayer dollars for prisons and correctional facilities than for the University of Wisconsin System.

For 2011-'13, Gov. Scott Walker and GOP lawmakers allotted just under $2.1 billion to the state's public universities and $2.25 billion to the Department of Corrections. It's a gap that is unlikely to close any time soon.


Of course it costs more to house a prisoner for a year than two semesters worth of tuition.
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:38 pm

For once I agree with part of your point. Personally I think it's self evident that they both cost too much. Your president himself said that they want to ensure students can afford college but universities need to make sure they're not taking advantage of the guaranteed funding if they still want to get it.

Prison costs more than it should. More people are in prison than ought to be there. The probation system is beyond gratuitous to the point of being profane and atrocious.

"Wisconsin: Come here on vacation, leave here on probation." A lot of people are in prison/jail for reasons most people don't expect. Probation officers have too much incentive and discretion to simply yank people out of the world and keep them locked up for half a year at a time, on a regular basis. Nobody complains about this kind of injustice... I am starting to wonder if the reason is that they just don't want to know.
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Bludgeon wrote:Your president...

Not yours? I thought he was president for all Americans.
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:45 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:Your president...

Not yours? I thought he was president for all Americans.


*tisk* don't go off topic on your own thread man ;) Your party's president how about that?
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:55 pm

OK, back to the topic. Do you believe Walker when he says that cuts to the University of Wisconsin System aren't permanent?
The university was cut $250 million in the current two-year budget and then later ordered to find another $66 million in reductions.
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:16 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:OK, back to the topic. Do you believe Walker when he says that cuts to the University of Wisconsin System aren't permanent?
The university was cut $250 million in the current two-year budget and then later ordered to find another $66 million in reductions.


Unfortunately I do. They're going to keep trying to get more funding and like all orgs trying to get more funding, someone is eventually going to give it to them. The more money the UW gets the bigger it's presence on downtown and I don't really think it's been all that positive.

Are you more outraged that they're taking the money out of the UW, or that the prisons are getting more?

I'm most outraged about the jails and prisons in this state. It's become like a cottage industry for little towns like Dodgeville. Somehow they get the funding to build a complex the size of the Colosseum and get paid to house prison inmates, then all the mild mannered little townies who get picked up for unpaid tickets are given the Hannibal Lecter treatment, it's wonderful.
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:29 pm

Bludgeon wrote:Are you more outraged that they're taking the money out of the UW, or that the prisons are getting more?

I'm most outraged about the jails and prisons in this state.

I agree. The prison industry has control of the Legislature and way too many people are imprisoned in Wisconsin.

But as a twice graduate of the UW System (and not of the state penal system) I am also disturbed by the cuts that ultimately lead to higher tuitions, which prevents otherwise qualified Wisconsin high school graduates from attending our state's universities.
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:37 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:Are you more outraged that they're taking the money out of the UW, or that the prisons are getting more?

I'm most outraged about the jails and prisons in this state.

I agree. The prison industry has control of the Legislature and way too many people are imprisoned in Wisconsin.

But as a twice graduate of the UW System (and not of the state penal system) I am also disturbed by the cuts that ultimately lead to higher tuitions, which prevents otherwise qualified Wisconsin high school graduates from attending our state's universities.


Twice graduate, eh? That's impressive. Did you like it better the first time or the second time?

Living in Madison and being downtown a lot, I don't have the same appreciation for the UW I had when I first moved here. I feel like they've become too attached to their expensive toys and pet projects. Enrollment is way up, and really I felt like we had just the right ratio of students to permanent residents in the 1990's. I guess I'm just talking from a residential perspective but the UW's influence and presence on down town Madison seems out of proportion now.
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:44 pm

Bludgeon wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:Are you more outraged that they're taking the money out of the UW, or that the prisons are getting more?

I'm most outraged about the jails and prisons in this state.

I agree. The prison industry has control of the Legislature and way too many people are imprisoned in Wisconsin.

But as a twice graduate of the UW System (and not of the state penal system) I am also disturbed by the cuts that ultimately lead to higher tuitions, which prevents otherwise qualified Wisconsin high school graduates from attending our state's universities.


Twice graduate, eh? That's impressive. Did you like it better the first time or the second time?

I've had a connection with UW for most of the time since 1966, my first freshman year (long story behind that). Except for four years in the Navy, I've been a student and/or a cooperating teacher with the School of Education until my retirement six years ago. Over 250 credits earned with coursework in five different schools (thank you, GI Bill) and two degrees. I bleed Badger red.
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby bleurose » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:45 pm

I'm curious: what do you mean about "influence on downtown" when referring to UW? Not trying to pick a fight or anything, I'm just not getting what you mean here & am trying to understand.

As far as 'going for more funding', this is the state of things for universities these days. Government agencies (pick your level - feds, states) don't have the dollars to give like they used to and so universities have to try to find those monies somewhere else.

There is a real dichotomy here that few will acknowledge: citizens don't seem to want more of their tax dollars to support higher education and yet they firmly believe that their kids should have access and cheaply. Well, it costs $$ to educate your little darlings, it ain't free and it ain't even cheap. Not for the quality that most feel they have a right to access. However, Republicans have been very effective at constantly whittling down the level of support for higher education while continuing to maintain an unjustifiable level of control. I'm fine personally if a legislature decides to keep support at a low level, but then their control should also be commensurately low - get out of the way and let universities pursue what they need to find dollars and how to operate. But they want it both ways - few dollars and total control. That is though, an effective way to strangle a university and perhaps that is the ultimate goal after all.

As for universities being "too attached to their expensive toys and projects" : where do you think ideas and innovation come from? It is NOT all coming from private enterprise, notwithstanding the free-market-competition-cures-all philosophy held by many. But - if you think that it is a good plan for all of the ideas/innovations to come from private industry AND that we then all get to pay through the nose to access said advances (think no farther than Big Pharma and the machinations they go through to keep generic drugs from coming on the market and all of us paying huge prices for their name brands and you get the picture), then think that one through again.
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Re: Walker budget: UW vs. prisons

Postby Ducatista » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:40 pm

bleurose wrote:I'm curious: what do you mean about "influence on downtown" when referring to UW?

I wondered that, too. Bludgeon, could you elaborate?
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