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Obama

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Obama

Postby Meade » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:13 pm

Whatever you do, you should just say that you voted for Obama. That way you won't lose Henry Vilas's love and the love of other super liberals like him.
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Re: Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:25 pm

Meade wrote:Whatever you do, you should just say that you voted for Obama. That way you won't lose Henry Vilas's love and the love of other super liberals like him.

And you are going to vote for...?
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Re: Obama

Postby Meade » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:29 pm

I'll tell you when we do our first volunteer project together, Hen.
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Re: Obama

Postby Stella_Guru » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:29 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
Stella_Guru wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Stella, you still haven't stated on whom you are going to waste your vote. Maybe you'll just sit it out at home. If so, your points are moot.

I will either vote for a 3rd party candidate, vote for Obama, or sit it out.

Thanks. I wondered how the independent vote would lean.

You are welcome. Now, please address my "moot" points. Do you deny that it is President Obama who has put austerity on the Democrat agenda?
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Re: Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:37 am

Since St. Russ isn't running for president, I'll go with the lesser of two evils. Remember 2000.
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Re: Obama

Postby Meade » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:52 am

Remember 2000.

Ralph Nader. Neither evil.
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Re: Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:06 am

Invading Iraq under false pretenses and needlessly sacrificing many tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) lives is extremely evil.
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Re: Obama

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:12 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Invading Iraq under false pretenses and needlessly sacrificing many tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) lives is extremely evil.


Well, we did have a bi-partisan declaration of war. Strong majorities in both houses.

And Bush himself said (SOTU 2002)that he was not going to wait until they had weapons.

And now it is turning out that there actually were weapons. We did not find them because they had been shipped to Syria. Funny we don't hear much about that these days, do we?



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Re: Obama

Postby Meade » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:12 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Invading Iraq under false pretenses and needlessly sacrificing many tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) lives is extremely evil.

Agreed.

1) "President Obama who has put austerity on the Democrat agenda" - Stella_Guru's question you don't seem to want to give a direct answer to.

2)Obama's military invasions, excursions, engagements over that last 3+ years: evil? extremely evil? or good?
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Re: Obama

Postby DCB » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:44 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Since St. Russ isn't running for president, I'll go with the lesser of two evils. Remember 2000.

Henry, the question isn't 'who are you planning to vote for'.
The question is, what do you think of the incumbent's record.
And his plans for a "grand bargain" which will impose severe austerity measures, hurt the poor, and probably bring on another recession.

I don't disagree that the Romney/Ryan social darwinism would be much worse.
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Re: Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:45 am

It's a matter of degree. Name a president who hasn't had our troops engaged in some sort of combat. Maybe William Henry Harrison, who died a month after taking office. But he led troops into battle when he served in the military.

Obama was left a mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are basically out of Iraq and hopefully soon out of Afghanistan.
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Re: Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:44 pm

Meade wrote:How much do you really know about him?

More importantly, how much do you dare to learn?

FACT CHECK: Anti-Obama film muddy on facts
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Re: Obama

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:59 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Meade wrote:How much do you really know about him?

More importantly, how much do you dare to learn?

FACT CHECK: Anti-Obama film muddy on facts


Don't worry. The Romney campaign has that covered:


"Fact checkers come to this with their own sets of thoughts and beliefs, and we’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers," he said. The fact-checkers — whose institutional rise has been a feature of the cycle — have "jumped the shark," he added after the panel.


http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/romney ... are-attack

Facts. We don't need no stinking facts. Well, at least they're honest.
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Re: Obama

Postby Sandi » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:20 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Meade wrote:How much do you really know about him?

More importantly, how much do you dare to learn?

FACT CHECK: Anti-Obama film muddy on facts


More importantly than either candidate, how well do we understand either party. The way I see it, the reason we the people are never happy with whichever party we elect is fairly simple. The aims of the grass roots conservatives are opposed to the corporate/business conservatives, and the aims of the grass roots liberal are opposed to the progressive liberals.

So whichever party wins, the opposing factions of the party in power end up in opposition. Doesn't matter if democrats or republicans come to power, the party factions cannot hold together once the opposition is defeated. Their objectives are entirely in opposite directions.

Until we acknowledge this, we won't understand why each time we vote to rearrange congress, and the office of president: we often end worse for our efforts. As long as we are blind faithful party followers, we will also be blind to the opposing factions, and the harm it does to the party we support.

I don't know how well I convey my meaning, but hope it makes sense.
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Re: Obama

Postby Stella_Guru » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:42 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Obama was left a mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are basically out of Iraq and hopefully soon out of Afghanistan.

Don't forget Obama's Africa policy, an extension and expansion of Bush's aim to militarize the continent, in which the U.S. is bankrolling, arming, and training the African Union Force that occupies Somalia's capital and has turned neighboring Djibouti into the main base for U.S. Africa command, AFRICOM.
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