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Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby johnfajardohenry » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:40 pm

Galoot wrote:But according to John Falardo Henry,


BTW Nemo, it is John Henry OF Fajardo. Not johnfajardohenry

I would have thought you could figure that out by how I sign my name.

Apparently not.

John Henry
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby rabble » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:07 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:And there is this:

A Raleigh-based group devoted to reducing the potential for voter fraud presented the N.C. Board of Elections on Friday with a list of nearly 30,000 names of dead people statewide who are still registered to vote.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/0 ... rylink=cpy

What is the point in even registering if one can't trust the voting process to be fair?

Bumpety bump.

So, how does the failure to remove dead people from the voter rolls in a timely fashion work out to dead people voting? Exactly what part of the voting process should one mistrust?
I know: If we know these people are dead, they must be recorded somewhere as being dead. But, they are still on the voting rolls. And we know they shouldn't be there, because we know they're dead.

This must mean that they voted but then for reasons unknown, no one recorded that they had voted.

Therefore, they must have voted.

Therefore, we cannot trust the voting system!
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby DCB » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Ohio ordered to restore weekend early voting in judge’s ruling

Another attempt to suppress the vote overturned by a federal court.


The OH Secy of State decides to ignore the judge; judge is NOT happy:
The Court ORDERS that Defendant Secretary of State Jon Husted personally attend the hearing.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Detritus » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:30 pm

DCB wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Ohio ordered to restore weekend early voting in judge’s ruling

Another attempt to suppress the vote overturned by a federal court.


The OH Secy of State decides to ignore the judge; judge is NOT happy:
The Court ORDERS that Defendant Secretary of State Jon Husted personally attend the hearing.

Cuff 'im, Dan-o.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby DCB » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:15 am

As noted previously, Pennsylvania's Voter ID law could disenfanchise anywhere from 100,000 to 1 Million voters. But it doesn't have to be so hard to get an ID!! You just have to tweet about your predicament. Or, ideally, get the host of a popular television show to tweet it. PennDOT will be right on it!

So if you know anyone in PA who needs an ID, just call Jim Cramer. Or his publicist:
Jan McKnight of the Pennsylvania Department of Transporation told TPM that a fellow staffer alerted her to Cramer’s tweet with an email. McKnight was then able to contact Cramer’s publicist. The publicist gave Cramer’s family a phone number for McKnight.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:45 pm

Pennsylvania voter ID: High court wants review of voter ID access

Pennsylvania's highest court is ordering a lower court to determine whether voters are getting easy access to photo ID cards under a new law requiring photo identification at the polls.

The state Supreme Court said Tuesday that if the lower Commonwealth Court is satisfied that there will be no voter disenfranchisement then the law can stand. Otherwise, the high court says it should be halted.

I hope the lower court moves with alacrity.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby johnfajardohenry » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:41 am

Henry Vilas wrote:I hope the lower court moves with alacrity.


Yeah, because we know how much you care about election integrity.

I posted this here a few weeks ago:

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=55176&p=700162&hilit=milwaukee#p700162

"David Lewis and Ramon Martinez, who were charged with election fraud arising out of the November 4, 2008, Presidential Election, entered guilty pleas Tuesday wherein they admitted they voted illegally"

Or

DOJ Cases:
Frank Walton
Charge: Falsely Procuring Voter Registration (Felony Class I)
Next date: December 6, 2010, for sentencing
Walton was a special registration deputy (“SRD”) who solicited voter registrations while working for the Community Voter Project (“CVP”).

Or

Michael Henderson
Charges: Voting by a Disqualified Person (Felon) (Felony Class I)
Providing False Information to an Election Official (Felony Class I)
Next date: November 19, 2010, for motion decision on defense constitutional challenge
This is a felon voter case. Milwaukee Public Defender is challenging the felon voter prohibition.

(DOJ = Wisconsin Dept of Justice)

And so on. Let me know if you want more.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby pjbogart » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:30 pm

I don't see how a small number of incidences involving voter fraud translate into a nationwide effort to limit people's access to the polls. The same people who reject thousands of murders every year with guns as an excuse to limit gun ownership pounce on a handful of felons voting as an excuse to limit voting rights.

Your support for voter ID laws seems wholly politically motivated, John Henry, since you fail to provide any meaningful statistics that show that our elections are affected by anything more than a statistically insignificant amount of voter fraud. It's your burden to show that the integrity of our elections is in jeopardy because you're the one who wants to limit access.

And no, Joe Smith the convicted felon who voted in Detroit last year does not constitute widespread voter fraud. And ID laws wouldn't stop him from voting anyway because felons aren't prevented from having IDs.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:46 pm

DCB wrote:As noted previously, Pennsylvania's Voter ID law could disenfanchise anywhere from 100,000 to 1 Million voters.


This is in one election versus...

"David Lewis and Ramon Martinez...Frank Walton...Michael Henderson...


the 4 that you found within the last 5 years. Which is a bigger blow to democracy.

I know, I know, there are probably a ton of cases out there that we don't know about. So it's the "prove to me it doesn't exist not whether it exists" Well, There is a such thing as a purple dragon. Don't believe me, well prove that I am wrong.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:12 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:I hope the lower court moves with alacrity.


Yeah, because we know how much you care about election integrity.

We know? Is that the royal we?
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby fennel » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:36 am

Here's Sarah Silverman's rather salty commentary on voter ID.
(NSFW unless you have your earphones on.)
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:06 pm

fennel wrote:Here's Sarah Silverman's rather salty commentary on voter ID.
(NSFW unless you have your earphones on.)


I just watched it and didn't realize that:

The law, SB 14, requires voters to show one of a very narrow list of government-issued documents, excluding Social Security, Medicaid, or student ID cards. Gun licenses, however, are acceptable.


Cause gun owners don't cause fraud

Because this is so obviously about fraud. Huh, I wonder who lobbied to have that provision put in there. I wonder who their members may vote for.

Henry Vilas wrote:Is that the royal we?


No, it's the asshole we.
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby snoqueen » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:48 pm

So have I got this right? I can either, say, drive to Minot and pay for a stamped copy of my birth certificate to take to the DMV and maybe get a voter ID, or I can fill out some online form and get a free gun permit, which is good for the same ID if this bill passes?

What's not to like?
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby Slick Willy » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:15 am

I care about voter fraud very much and think that it's totally wrong, but if more votes are suppressed by voter ID laws than fraudulent votes are averted, then isn't it obvious that this unconstitutional law is wrong? Conservatives don't care about arithmetic or what's the overall moral choice. They just care about their agenda. They use illogical arguments and say that liberals don't care about voter fraud, which is BS. Liberals simply allow themselves to see the big picture on this issue by weighing out the pluses and the minuses. Conservatives will just continue to ignore the safeguards that are already in place to prevent voter fraud, and ignore the instances of fraud that voter ID wouldn't have prevented and lie by saying that liberal candidates depend on fraudulent votes to win elections, which couldn't be further from the truth. We depend on the votes of senior citizens, students, minorities, and the poor to win elections, and voter ID will stifle many of their votes.

The other lie is that only liberals commit fraud.
Republican U.S. House Staffer Pleads ‘No Contest’ To Five Election Fraud Counts
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Re: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

Postby DCB » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:46 pm

From Colorado:
"We have real vulnerabilities in the system," said Colorado Secretary of State Scott Gessler
...
Last year, Gessler estimated that 11,805 noncitizens were on the rolls.
Wow, that's unbelievable. As in, I don't believe it.

the number of noncitizens now stands at 141, based on checks using a federal immigration database. Of those 141, Gessler said 35 have voted in the past. The 141 are .004 percent of the state's nearly 3.5 million voters.

So, there really isn't a serious problem. Just a very small problem.

Or, maybe no problem at all.
Even those numbers could be fewer.

The Denver clerk and recorder's office, which had records on eight of the 35 voters who cast ballots in the past, did its own verification and found that those eight people appear to be citizens.

In other words, there is absolutely no evidence of any non-citizen actually voting, based on Gessler's own investigation. A guy who is "making a name for himself at home by pursuing the issue".
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