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Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby pjbogart » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:03 pm

Sandi wrote:I haven't heard much about Sandra Fluke, but watched her speech at the convention last night. Apparently she is the one who made the media fuss about the government paying for contraceptives.


Use a moderate tone, lie your ass off, check, check...

Sandi wrote:In her speech before the convention she said:

An America in which access to birth control is controlled by people who will never use it.


Controlled how? Doctor prescribed birth control can be picked up at any drug store for about the price of a decent lipstick. She didn't mention it in her speech, but from other recent news, what she wants is for you to pay for it.


Lie some more, attempt to trick people into believing that someone is stealing from them.

Sandi wrote:It isn't a health issue so why should you and I pay for it? Shoes are a necessity too so she can sit in Georgetown University classes, maybe we should pay for that. How about prescription glasses, a happy meal, cosmetics, or a winter coat?

So many have their hand stretched out to the government, and politicians in either party is all too happy to try and accommodate to buy their vote. Then the same people are indignant because of the way congress spends spends spends.


Confuse the issues. Attempt to tie private insurance expenditures to government spending. Belittle women's health issues by comparing them to happy meals and shoes.

Jeepers, Sandi. You show up a couple of months before an election and your posts read like a job aid for a Republican staffer. Huh. You put a lot of effort into sounding moderate yet everything you type is right-wing propaganda.

Haven't heard much about Sandra Fluke before, eh? Somehow I doubt that.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:24 pm

Anyone remember the attempt to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment, a constituitonal declaration that women are equal to men? This discussion would be moot if it had been ratified.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby Sandi » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:07 pm

In a few posts here it is possible to have an intelligent back and forth. I have been a member since 2005 but quit soon after because it was nothing but trolling and flaming, although much much worse then than now.

I thought as it seemed a bit more mellow now I would give it another go. However most of you always prefer to attack the messenger than have an intelligent discussion. I don't expect to be agreed with, but I do expect civil discourse. Not sure if it is just habit, or laziness, but don't intend to stay here and feed the trolls.

Maybe I will have another look in a few years. Have fun jerking each other.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby Meade » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:15 pm

Sandi,
I've enjoyed your posts.
Don't let the haters get you down. Keep asking the tough questions and speaking truth to cynicism.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby pjbogart » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:56 pm

Sandi wrote:However most of you always prefer to attack the messenger than have an intelligent discussion. I don't expect to be agreed with, but I do expect civil discourse.


Sorry, Sandi, but the way I see it your efforts are anything but intelligent or civil. You're simply regurgitating right-wing talking points. Example. Sandra Fluke is that woman who thinks the government should pay for her contraceptives. Huh? The PPACA mandates that private insurers cover contraceptive pills that are prescribed by your doctor. You pay for that insurance. Why is it that Rush Limbaugh can go get pills for his limp dick but you can't get contraceptives?

There is no government takeover of healthcare. You cannot buy into Medicare. Private insurers are being required to offer contraceptives if they choose to be part of the insurance exchange.

And you are not being forced to pay for other women's contraceptives any more than you're being forced to pay for their broken legs. They pay for it when they pay their insurance. I have a copay of $180/month for healthcare through Dean and I've only been to the doctor about four times in the past 10 years. I guess that means that I'm paying for your healthcare, right? I'm a man, so I can never get cervical cancer, so I guess I should just say, "fuck you, die already" if you happen to get it. That's bullshit that I should have to pay for your cervical cancer. Fuck everyone but me! ME ME ME ME ME!

I'm sorry, is that uncivil? Well, step away from the daily doses of Rush Limbaugh and think for yourself for a change. And try your hardest not to tell flat-out lies like "(Sandra Fluke) made the media fuss about the government paying for contraceptives." The media fuss was when Rush Limbaugh called her a whore and a prostitute. No one would even know the name Sandra Fluke if it hadn't been for Rush Limbaugh making an ass of himself. She got pilloried on nationally broadcast radio and you're trying to blame her for it. That's shameful. Especially coming from a woman, assuming you are a woman.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:37 pm

DCB wrote:
peripat wrote:Yeah, why should I pay for any diseases caused by obesity or poor diet or suntanning or a sedentary lifestyle or sports injuries ...all choices.

or driving a car or riding a bike or living in a polluted city or living in a rural area with deer ticks or .....
This is getting startlingly close to the correct answer. Too bad that you find it ironic. It's all about choice - if you choose to pay an into an insurance policy that insures against those things, that's fine, no problem. The problem is when you have no choice about what your insurance policy covers (because that choice is made for you by the government).
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:48 pm

pjbogart wrote:Private insurers are being required to offer contraceptives if they choose to be part of the insurance exchange.
This is new and interesting to me, because I haven't heard what you're talking about. This is a chance to change my mind about this issue, due to my lack of information.

Is it really true that insurance companies can opt out (i.e. choose not to be a part of) of the mandated coverage schemes established by the ACA? Is it legally possible to operate an insurance company that, for instance, doesn't cover contraception, as long as the company doesn't participate in the state exchanges (assuming they also have a choice to not participate in the state exchanges)? If so, I have one less qualm about the law. Documentation would be helpful in this matter.

You'll surely understand that my objection has nothing to do with contraception, which is a fine choice and something that I and my partner benefit from.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:55 pm

pjbogart wrote:No one would even know the name Sandra Fluke if it hadn't been for Rush Limbaugh making an ass of himself. She got pilloried on nationally broadcast radio and you're trying to blame her for it. That's shameful. Especially coming from a woman, assuming you are a woman.
Rush made an ass of himself, no question.

But are we to have any special sympathy for Fluke because she is a woman? People of all genders are regularly transformed into political playthings by talk radio and internet media blowhards. Women are arguably equally susceptible to disingenuous political persuasion as men - why should the average woman be expected to stand up for another woman just because of their common gender?
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby Donald » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:17 pm

I'm not seeing much real experience on this thread with birth control, pregnancy or other health issues of primary interest to women and the men they love. I reared a daughter, and anyone who has done so, or who has paid any attention at all to his female partner knows that sexual and reproductive system issues are huge health issues for nearly all women not in convents, and probably even there.

Pregnancy and reproductive issues became a health issue back about a hundred and thirty years ago when we started trying to figure out how to prevent deaths of newborns and mothers during childbirth. Before then, about 1 in 100 births resulted in a death either of the child or the mother. Once medicine went to work to solve that issue, and you no longer needed to bear six or eight children to assure that 2 or 3 survived, women sought out ways to prevent conception.

I'm not sure what is wrong psychologically with some men, even some women, needing to turn their backs on the medical progress that has allowed their daughters to live not just full and productive lives, but to actually live.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby Bludgeon » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:58 am

Sandi wrote:
An America in which access to birth control is controlled by people who will never use it.


Controlled how? Doctor prescribed birth control can be picked up at any drug store for about the price of a decent lipstick. She didn't mention it in her speech, but from other recent news, what she wants is for you to pay for it.


...People who will never use it - which people? Men? Ah.. without men, what would the birth control be for?

Anyway her basic position is this: she gets laid, you get the bill.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:50 am

Anyway her basic position is this: she gets laid, you get the bill.


I think her position is that birth control is cheaper than birth. The insurance companies agree so they are fine with no longer charging a copay for that particular product. You actually don't pay. She pays, her insurance premium which now includes birth control. No one is giving anything away. That's false.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby Bland » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:15 am

Bludgeon wrote:...without men, what would the birth control be for?

How many times do people have to keep explaining that
birth control pills are used for more reasons than just preventing pregnancy before you stop employing that stupid argument?
More than 1.5 million American women use birth control pills for reasons other than preventing pregnancy......14 percent of pill users said they were taking the medication for a purpose other than contraception.....pill users include an estimated 762,000 women who've never had sex.....most women who use the pill use it for multiple reasons. Only a minority — 42 percent — said they used it exclusively for contraception.....


Do we really need to change the name of the product to reflect its wider use just to stop morons from braying incessantly about why denying proper health care to over 90 million people is somehow in the best interest of the country?
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby rabble » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:17 am

Gosh darn those progressive nitwits, eh Sandi?

I remember you calling them that way back when you were pretending to be a moderate over on that other forum.

It's still obvious how you think, and that "oh, poor persecuted me" schtick when you get called out on it is still pretty lame.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby DCB » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:18 am

ArturoBandini wrote:But are we to have any special sympathy for Fluke because she is a woman? People of all genders are regularly transformed into political playthings by talk radio and internet media blowhards. Women are arguably equally susceptible to disingenuous political persuasion as men - why should the average woman be expected to stand up for another woman just because of their common gender?

It isn't because the focus of the attacks happens to be a women. The attacks were directed at here specifically because of her gender.
It began when Issa held a hearing on the contraception rule and refused to listen to any women. The only people he seemed interested in hearing from were (allegedly) celibate men.

It escalated with Limbaugh's use of the words 'slut' and 'prostitute'. The message was clear: women who speak up on public policy, especially on policy that affects women, will be openly denigrated and slandered.

The entire fiasco is about gender inequality and misogyny.
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Re: Sandra Fluke: Access to Birth Control

Postby ArturoBandini » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:29 am

DCB wrote:It isn't because the focus of the attacks happens to be a women. The attacks were directed at here specifically because of her gender.
That puts a pretty fine point on it, so I agree. I guess I was more objecting to pj's implicit obligation of women observers to be outraged by this series of events. It's not a big deal, and I don't think that pj meant anything too deep about his comment.
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