MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Saturday, October 25, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 68.0° F  A Few Clouds
Collapse Photo Bar

"Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby pjbogart » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:24 am

Ned Flanders wrote:More than anything, the audio seems to be an indictment of the Chicoms and the wretched system they have created.


Ha! Chicoms! I giggle every time I hear Rush Limbaugh say "Chicoms". I think to myself, who is dumb enough to be persuaded by schoolyard taunts like that?

Now I know.
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6169
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:29 am

pjbogart wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:More than anything, the audio seems to be an indictment of the Chicoms and the wretched system they have created.


Ha! Chicoms! I giggle every time I hear Rush Limbaugh say "Chicoms". I think to myself, who is dumb enough to be persuaded by schoolyard taunts like that?

Now I know.

Dem's fightin' words!
Image
Ned Flanders
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 13380
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 2:48 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby pjbogart » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:10 am

For those of you unaware, a "Chicom" is a Chinese Communist. I'm not sure if Limbaugh coined the word, but he uses it a lot.

So Ned, you apparently don't care much for Chicoms, yet you support Mitt Romney making a bundle of money shipping jobs to them? Don't you think that giving jobs, even low wage jobs, to China is a boon for the Chicoms?

Isn't that akin to comforting the enemy?
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6169
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:15 am

pjbogart wrote:For those of you unaware, a "Chicom" is a Chinese Communist. I'm not sure if Limbaugh coined the word, but he uses it a lot.

So Ned, you apparently don't care much for Chicoms, yet you support Mitt Romney making a bundle of money shipping jobs to them? Don't you think that giving jobs, even low wage jobs, to China is a boon for the Chicoms?

Isn't that akin to comforting the enemy?

Hey pj. Own an I-Phone? How about an I-Pad? Flat screen TV? Video game? Buy anything at Target?
Ned Flanders
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 13380
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 2:48 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby pjbogart » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:28 am

Yes. But I didn't say this:

Ned Flanders wrote:More than anything, the audio seems to be an indictment of the Chicoms and the wretched system they have created.


So you're criticizing the "wretched system" yet you give a pass to the guy who ships jobs to China for great personal profit?

Would you say that giving jobs to Chicoms is better than giving jobs to union laborers? Ned Flanders prioritizes his enemies. Middle class Americans are at the top of his list.
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6169
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:33 am

pjbogart wrote:Yes.

Then you're part of the problem, aren't you?

Why do you hate rural Chinese women pj? Why do you hate American factory workers?
Ned Flanders
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 13380
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 2:48 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby ilikebeans » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:22 pm

pjbogart wrote:Would you say that giving jobs to Chicoms is better than giving jobs to union laborers? Ned Flanders prioritizes his enemies. Middle class Americans are at the top of his list.
ilikebeans
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2824
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:23 am

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby scratch » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:13 pm

pjbogart wrote:For those of you unaware, a "Chicom" is a Chinese Communist. I'm not sure if Limbaugh coined the word, but he uses it a lot.


I'm just relieved to learn that Chicom isn't yet still another insulting term for a Bears fan.
scratch
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 749
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby rabble » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:20 pm

Okay, once again I attempt to grasp these dizzying leaps of logic.

If I own anything made in China, I am responsible for Chinese slave labor and therefore have no grounds to take anyone to task who owns, and makes fantastic profits from, a chinese factory.

Even if this person toured a slave-run factory, was treated like an overlord, and apparently believed the overseers when they told him those walls are there to keep people out.

I've got no call to say he did anything wrong, because something I own was made in China.

Is that it or is it more complicated?
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6307
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby snoqueen » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:26 pm

scratch wrote:
pjbogart wrote:For those of you unaware, a "Chicom" is a Chinese Communist. I'm not sure if Limbaugh coined the word, but he uses it a lot.


I'm just relieved to learn that Chicom isn't yet still another insulting term for a Bears fan.


And I was trying to figure out what this all had to do with the Cubs. Thanks.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11638
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:31 pm

I'm just getting to this thread, so I'm responding to the Romney video and not the comments that have already been made.

I'm not sure what to think of this. Would life have been better for those Chinese women had Romney/Bain not purchased the factory? Should they have purchased the factory anyway and then done something (what?) to improve conditions? It's not clear to me what is the "correct" or "moral" response to being in a situation like this. It's easy to throw jabs when we're not the ones who have to personally interact with the realities of global trade, economic development, and oppressive foreign governments. There are lots of ways to go with this, so I'm curious to know what people think. One thing I'm sure about is that if Romney/Bain hadn't decided to purchase the factory, someone else with similar intentions would have, so it's harder to imagine a positive resolution to this situation for the Chinese women involved. Would it be better if we had a candidate who was wholly ignorant or inexperienced in the hard realities of global trade?

Like others have commented on other pages, I wonder if Romney actually believes that the barbed-wire fences were meant to keep throngs of aspiring workers out of the facility. It is at least plausible, but not as plausible as keeping them in.

btw, I'm not voting for Romney, I don't need any further convincing on that point.
ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby rabble » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:39 pm

ArturoBandini wrote: One thing I'm sure about is that if Romney/Bain hadn't decided to purchase the factory, someone else with similar intentions would have, so it's harder to imagine a positive resolution to this situation for the Chinese women involved.

Oh, isn't that sweet? I wonder how long that particular argument has been around. Since we can't resolve their predicament, that sort of absolves the owners of the factory because, well, if they didn't do it, someone else would. Moral arguments, they're not really valid because... um. Hm.

Seems like I remember it from a Dr Seuss cartoon too.

The things that you do are completely ungood!

But if I did not do them, then someone else would.

That's an excellent argument Mr Once-ler!


Vote Romney! He owned a slave factory before some other guy could get it!
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6307
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:43 pm

rabble wrote:Oh, isn't that sweet? I wonder how long that particular argument has been around. Since we can't resolve their predicament, that sort of absolves the owners of the factory because, well, if they didn't do it, someone else would.
The "someone else would have" argument doesn't absolve anyone, but it certainly makes the situation more complicated. If anything, it implicates more people as having fault in the matter (other businessmen, Chinese government, U.S. government, complacent consumers).
ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:18 pm

The issue of whether the workers would have been better or worse off with Romney vs. another purchaser is wholly irrelevant. The issue is the willingness of Romney to invest and participate in despicable and immoral business practices. What modern candidate is unaware of the "hard realities of global trade"? The point is that Romney was a willing participant. Had he done nothing (i.e. not invested in or purchased the plant), he would have done nothing immoral. As has been pointed out elsewhere, we're all complicit to some degree, given our society's reliance on the products of such abhorrent business practices, but we don't all seek out ways to financially profit from that exploitation. Either Romney values profit above human dignity and compassion, or else he's such a lousy businessman, that's the only way he can earn his millions. Lots of people become millionaires without selling their souls. Obama, for example, wrote some bestsellers, no human degradation necessary.
Prof. Wagstaff
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 8960
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: "Romney boasts about Bain's slave labor profits"

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:34 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:The issue is the willingness of Romney to invest and participate in despicable and immoral business practices. What modern candidate is unaware of the "hard realities of global trade"?
I assume we're talking Presidential candidates, because I'm sure there are plenty of candidates for other offices that have little knowledge or experience in this area. I can't really say for Obama, but he's a pretty smart and observant guy so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I largely agree with your comment and you've changed mind on at least one point - willfull nonparticipation is probably the correct response, even when the awful situation is unavoidable either way. I'm not 100% convinced that the labor practices described in China actually are despicable or immoral (another discussion), but assuming they are for the sake of argument, you're right that Romney would have done no wrong by simply walking away.

I was purposefully painting global trade in the harshest light I could in my previous comment, which isn't fair. Global trade is a net good for humans and for society. There are certainly losers in the actual practice of trade, but I'm not sure that such results are intrinsic, instead of being the result of other faulty social institutions and path-dependence of economic development.
ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

PreviousNext

Return to National Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar