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What Deregulation Really Looks Like

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What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby wack wack » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:48 am

So much for the children...

Mandatory requirements designed to detect fire-causing conditions, stop electric shocks and keep children from sticking foreign objects into electrical outlets have been targeted for removal from the state code, according to a governor-approved plan to rewrite the rules to administer the code.


http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/walker-administration-targets-electrical-safety-codes-citing-home-builders-concerns/article_a5e0e50e-ff6b-11e1-9da0-001a4bcf887a.html
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby other i » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:24 am

Open for The Business
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby DCB » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:34 am

You have to consider both sides of the issue.

On the one hand, these regulations are proven to save lives.

On the other hand, a lobbyist for the home-building industry says he's heard from some guy that some of the devices don't always work correctly.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:58 am

This is classic from that article:

"Governor Walker campaigned on getting government out of the way by ensuring that regulations are science-based and predictable.

Read more: http://host.madison.com/news/local/govt ... z26jf9Eu6F


Yet:

Deschane was critical of the AFCI, GFCI and tamper-proof outlets because "some electricians have been talking to us about reliability problems." A home security system or a sump pump, for example, can trip an interrupter, he said. And the tamper-resistant outlets, which use small plastic covers over the prong openings that are moved aside only when both sides are engaged at the same time, cause problems for "some people who have trouble putting plugs in those sockets."

He knew of no tests or statistics or reports that support those claims, but "the concerns we have raised come from complaints from people who have been installing (the devices) in Wisconsin."


So you need science to prove they work, but some "concerns" to prove they don't. It's also good to know changing the rules could take up to 600 hours of staff time. Good thing to know we've got some priorities in Wisconsin.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:07 am

It's true that many of these devices don't always work correctly or just wear out fast, and it's because they're made in China.

And it's these very same home-builders who would probably refuse to purchase a higher quality product made here (or anywhere else really) if it were available (not sure if it is).

A perfect opportunity for some of these "job creators" if you ask me. Put some Wisconsinites to work making high quality electrical safety devices so that these sensible rules can be left in place. It's win win.

The tamper resistant receptacles do mostly suck.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby wack wack » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:10 am

narcoleptish wrote:The tamper resistant receptacles do mostly suck.


It should be noted that this explanation is as reasonable, factual and effective as anything Walker or his camp provided on the issue.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:41 am

It should be noted that this wasn't an "explanation", but just a simple statement of opinion.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby wack wack » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:55 am

narcoleptish wrote:It should be noted that this wasn't an "explanation", but just a simple statement of opinion.


No reason to get ruffled, no knock on you; it was a comment on Walker's "evidence," which, disturbingly considering his power, are also just simple statements of opinion.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby DCB » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:26 am

wack wack wrote:
narcoleptish wrote:It should be noted that this wasn't an "explanation", but just a simple statement of opinion.


No reason to get ruffled, no knock on you; it was a comment on Walker's "evidence," which, disturbingly considering his power, are also just simple statements of opinion.

I think what you're saying, maybe narco has a point.

BUT, if Walker was sincere (please stop laughing) about making regulations 'science-based' (PLEASE STOP LAUGHING), he would follow up with
* an investigation into how defective the devices are
* whether better devices are available
* an evaluation of the benefits of existing devices vs. how much they suck.

before jumping to 'throw out all the regulations!'.

I don't see any of that. What I do see is he pissed off the firefighters. Again.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:33 pm

After taking a lot of criticism, Walker is backing off.

Walker reverses course on removing electrical safety codes
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm

Wow. This is the sort of thread that I could easily spend hours arguing about, but I'll try to keep it simple. On the philosophical front, it suffices to say that mandatory building codes of any sort are not a legitimate use of government power. On the political front, Walker has yet again shown his poor skills in choosing the right battles.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby Donald » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:21 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:Wow. This is the sort of thread that I could easily spend hours arguing about, but I'll try to keep it simple. On the philosophical front, it suffices to say that mandatory building codes of any sort are not a legitimate use of government power. On the political front, Walker has yet again shown his poor skills in choosing the right battles.

Yes, we want houses to burn down, and children to die needlessly, because you're a philosophical idiot.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:34 pm

Donald wrote:Yes, we want houses to burn down, and children to die needlessly, because you're a philosophical idiot.
Sigh. Really? Bastiat said it best. In that text, substitute "bureaucrats" for "socialists" and you have the case against mandated building codes.
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby fennel » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:48 pm

I like the biology analogy better:

When it comes to your body, are you in favor of regulated cell growth or unregulated cell growth?

And is regulated cell growth philosophically justifiable? Or is it an unwarranted imposition that impedes market forces?
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Re: What Deregulation Really Looks Like

Postby Detritus » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:04 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Donald wrote:Yes, we want houses to burn down, and children to die needlessly, because you're a philosophical idiot.
Sigh. Really? Bastiat said it best. In that text, substitute "bureaucrats" for "socialists" and you have the case against mandated building codes.

Ah yes, Bastiat the monarchist, now become a libertarian hero. Amazing where one can go sometimes, isn't it?
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