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All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby Stella_Guru » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:26 am

Besides being sponsored by the American Coalition for Clean Coal, they are put on by a private corporation, the Presidential Debate Commission, founded by the leaders of the two corporate parties who choose the format, the location, the moderators, the questions, and explicitly draw upon the rules to exclude candidates and parties other than Democrats and Republicans.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby Stomach » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:16 am

Are you trying to say they didn't invite you?
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby DCB » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:45 am

The Owners of the country get to decide the debate topics
Lehrer said the first three segments will focus on the economy. The last three segments will focus on "health care, the role of government, and governing."

Do you see anything about energy policy? environment? leadership on global warming?

Will the three debates on 'the economy' cover subsidies to big oil?

We do get 2 full debates on 'governing', which probably include a lot of wankery about "what the founding fathers wanted".
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby gargantua » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:03 am

DCB wrote:The Owners of the country get to decide the debate topics
Lehrer said the first three segments will focus on the economy. The last three segments will focus on "health care, the role of government, and governing."

Do you see anything about energy policy? environment? leadership on global warming?

The three items you mentioned could be covered within both the economy, as well as the role of government and governing. I am certain that Romney will complain about Obama's energy policy, and about how in his view Obama's EPA is hurting Big Coal, and too many regulations are hurting business, and on and on.

While I agree with Stella's original post, it's not like this is something new. It's deplorable, but I don't see it changing in the next election cycle or two. I hate to contemplate how bad things will have to get before people insist on genuine change.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby rabble » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:27 pm

gargantua wrote:I hate to contemplate how bad things will have to get before people insist on genuine change.

If I recall, people didn't start insisting till things were bad AND they had nothing much left to lose. It appears to me that our rulers are deliberately creating dependencies in the general population that negates the second aspect. "Yeah things are bad but if we rock the boat, I will lose X. Can't have that."

By the time things collapse so badly that X isn't available there won't really be much to revolt against.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby Donald » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:42 pm

I've been waiting for genuine change since 1966. I figured out by 1968 that people insisting on "genuine change" doesn't quite cut it. Change happens from the bottom up, it requires really hard work, and it's usually done in small, unsatisfying little steps. Along the way, people get frustrated, turned off, change priorities, and change views. It seems you have to start over about every 5-10 years, because sometimes you lose ground. When you make a little headway, you can't be so negative that it wasn't enough change. That just kills the energy and the hope that people need to continue on.

Some things have gotten much better over the last forty years. Race relations, women's rights, gay rights have all headed in the right direction, even with setbacks. Economic conditions have gotten worse for many, but we still have a social safety net that prevents the very worst from happening to people.

Our system of government with all its checks and balances is just not set up for large-scale "genuine change," so don't expect it. It is really rare to have a period like the 1930s or 1964-1968, where huge strides were made.

With all the noise about the Tea Party in 2010 and their calls for "genuine change," they got very little. They obstructed, and made the economic recovery less than it could have been, but they didn't really change anything. And now they're about to lose big time, that is if people on the left stop moping about not getting enough change.

I've voted for third parties in the past and always regretted it. Not this year, when the stakes are so high.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby Stella_Guru » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:22 pm

Stomach wrote:Are you trying to say they didn't invite you?

You've got itch? I've got scratch.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby Stella_Guru » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:29 pm

DCB wrote:
Lehrer said the first three segments will focus on the economy. The last three segments will focus on "health care, the role of government, and governing."

Do you see anything about energy policy? environment? leadership on global warming?
Will the three debates on 'the economy' cover subsidies to big oil?
We do get 2 full debates on 'governing', which probably include a lot of wankery about "what the founding fathers wanted".

I suspect they will not cover eliminating or reducing the 5000 nuclear warheads; stopping the death penalty; arresting and prosecuting for the subprime mortgage catastrophe; holding anyone accountable in the Bush Administration for torture committed by U.S. against prisoners in Guantanamo, Iraq, or Afghanistan; stopping the use of drones to assassinate people in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia;
warrantless surveillance; indefinite detention; racial profiling in fighting terrorism; raising minimum wage beyond lip service; arresting Bin Laden and having him tried in court; refusing to bomb Iran; refusing to take huge campaign contributions from people and organizations; the millions of people in jails and prisons; the creation of public jobs so everyone who wants to work can; opposition or support of the nuclear power industry; continuing the 40 year war on drugs; foreclosure moratoriums; poverty; right to organize unions and strike; more privatization of schools; more bailouts for banksters.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby Ducatista » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:39 pm

Donald wrote:Economic conditions have gotten worse for many, but we still have a social safety net that prevents the very worst from happening to people.

I'm with you on most of your post, Donald, but got hung up here. More accurate: we still have a social safety net that prevents the very worst from happening to most people.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby Donald » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:23 pm

I don't know if Stella has ever seen a Presidential debate. Stella apparently doesn't remember that they asked about the death penalty once in a Presidential debate. It was a disaster for Michael Dukakis. It's mostly a state issue anyway.

Most of the other issues Stella brings up will probably be covered in more general questions, though I suspect there will be a few more specific questions on terrorism/foreign policy. I expect the energy issue will be dealt with, but these debates aren't going to delve too far into the policy weeds on anything.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby gargantua » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:46 pm

I wonder if Romney will be asked for one specific deduction he would phase out in the tax code.

Maybe it's just me, but it would be kind of nice if we insisted upon knowing what he would actually do as president aside from not being Barack Obama. I'm willing to stipulate that, so let's move on.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby Stella_Guru » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:11 am

Donald wrote:I don't know if Stella has ever seen a Presidential debate.

Altho the debates are presented as an opportunity to compare the differences between the two candidates, a progressive platform could be built almost entirely around opposition to those positions shared. The ties that bind them are much stronger than any differences. A discussion between the two candidates about what they agree upon would be more informative.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby wack wack » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:24 am

Stella_Guru wrote:Altho the debates are presented as an opportunity to compare the differences between the two candidates... A discussion between the two candidates about what they agree upon would be more informative.


But that wouldn't be a debate now, would it? The many, many ways in which the candidates are the same make the debates about their differences even more critical. Fractional degrees of difference matter, they really do, now more than ever.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby rabble » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:30 am

Yeah but if it was a real debate it would reveal where they agreed and highlight the differences. I can't recall a presidential debate that came close to doing that.
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Re: All you need to know about the Presidential Debates

Postby snoqueen » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:40 am

The debates aren't only the two candidates presenting their programs. They're also presenting themselves. One of them will usually needle the other, and what the other one does -- loses it? makes a joke? dishes it right back? -- sticks in the viewers' minds. The whole thing helps build up, or tear down, the overall impressions we've accumulated for the last year or more.
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