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Impressions of the Debate

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Huckleby » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:48 pm

Jim Lehrer has already made one 2012 update to his memoir, and now he'll need a second, because this is the only debate he'll be remembered for.

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It's a little like Bill Buckner writing his memoir, "My Life in Baseball" before the 1986 World Series.

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Last edited by Huckleby on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:50 pm

wack wack wrote:The whole point is that Obama won on substance, not just likability, to those who listened rather than watched the debate.

Yeah, he kicked ass with the Fibber McGee and Molly demo.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Earthling » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:51 pm

I think all of the hand wringing by Democrats and chest pounding by Republicans is nothing more than a "monkey see/monkey do" routine. Media pundits are crowing about Romney's slam dunk but I didn't get that impression at all while watching the debate.


What debate were you watching? You can HONESTLY say it wasn't obvious that Romney won that debate? I think Obama thought that as long as he talked longer than Romney that somehow he was going to win. Romney spoke 40%, but made crisp concise points, and rebutted Obama's repeated attempts to misrepresent his plans.

Is it any secret that the media wants/needs a horse race? I mean, there are a lot of advertising dollars at stake here and Romney has been thoroughly scorched over the past few weeks. He needed a good debate to stay competitite, but they needed a Romney win to pay the bills.


Riiiiiiight. Obama really won the debate, but the pundits needed to tip the scales towards Romney to keep it interesting. Does anyone here actually buy this crap?

Anyone here actually change their mind after watching the debate? I didn't think so


The people here aren't what matters. I doubt there are very many undecided voters posting the TDPF. You must understand the political process well enough to realize that Obama and Romney are chasing the independent/undecided voters. Fact is Romney closed the gap in this race last night with his performance....whether you like it/will admit that it happened or not.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:54 pm

Do people who are undecided (at this late point in the race) even bother to watch the debates? Honest question, as I have no idea.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby wack wack » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:56 pm

Huckleby wrote:
wack wack wrote:The whole point is that Obama won on substance, not just likability, to those who listened rather than watched the debate.


Not really. As I said, unanswered points count as wins, and Romney had plenty of them. And Romney made his arguments far more clearly and forcefully. That counts as "substance."

What you are saying is you agree with Obama, and he was more honest. That doesn't mean he was persuasive.


What I am telling you has nothing to do with me. I am telling you what talk radio callers have been saying all morning, one after the other.

Clear, forceful lies are still lies. Apparently viewers got the "clear and forceful" while listeners picked up on the lies.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:00 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Do people who are undecided (at this late point in the race) even bother to watch the debates? Honest question, as I have no idea.


I'm not sure either, but if someones opinion is changed by how our debate system works, then that's sad.

Neither side said anything different than what is on their website or in a commercial. NOTHING was elaborated on. The answers were spoken verbatim. When questioned by the other, both candidates were respond with, "no, your wrong" and then repeat the fucking thing they just said. Romney may have won with "zingers" but nobody won on substance. These debates are a joke.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Donald » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:18 pm

I doubt more than a half a percent of decided voters will switch, but undecideds are very much influenced by preception. Here's the problem I see with liberals: they let their emotions get the better of this understanding.

Conservatives were standing behind Romney even though he basically threw them under the bus (for this debate). He jettisoned the most radical conservative positions. Yet the conservative elite are falling in line, praising Romney. They want to win.

So, Obama stands up for his values, but doesn't skewer Romney enough to suit them. They want blood, but many undecideds just want someone who's reasonable. The liberals are all disappointed, saying Romney won and feeding into exactly what could lead to undecideds to move toward Romney.

Nichols, Ed and a lot of the talking head liberals are bound and determined to lose the election, because they don't understand the undecided vote.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby wack wack » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:21 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:
wack wack wrote:The whole point is that Obama won on substance, not just likability, to those who listened rather than watched the debate.

Yeah, he kicked ass with the Fibber McGee and Molly demo.
Image


Yeah, because those glued to the boob tube are the intelligent ones.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby rabble » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:24 pm

Donald wrote:So, Obama stands up for his values, but doesn't skewer Romney enough to suit them. They want blood, but many undecideds just want someone who's reasonable. The liberals are all disappointed, saying Romney won and feeding into exactly what could lead to undecideds to move toward Romney.

Wait a minute. You're saying that Obama behaved in a manner that would win over a large part of the undecided voters who actually listened to the debate and thought about it, but then lose them because they'd be swayed by the spin from the right and the far left?
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Ducatista » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:30 pm

Obama is by far the better candidate, and I wish he'd performed accordingly last night. Lots of missed opportunities to call out some glaring Romney bullshit, in particular the "private sector does everything better" claptrap that even Romney didn't always fall for.

Today is a total media bummer, but hey, that's racing. I've already heard Obama painting Debate Romney as a fiction that doesn't jibe with the reality of Romney as a rich guy's rich guy. If he can paint Romney as a slick salesman who misrepresented his product, he might make some hay with that. But Romney's campaign has already demonstrated (and admitted) that it doesn't give a shit about facts, and that may be a smart read. Voters might not give a shit about the facts, either.

Most likely, I think, is that the debate will be a hot topic for the next couple days and then we'll be on to something else. We'll see.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby ilikebeans » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:36 pm

Here's the Politifact analysis of the debate thus far. Seems like it's mostly a wash, with lots of half-truths.

My biggest disappointment in Obama came from two occasions where Romney accused him of not being able to get bipartisan support for his policies. Big, big opportunity there for Obama to point out just how dead-set the Republicans were against cooperating with him on any single thing, even bills that were modeled after what they previously had supported.

JFC, all he would have had to do is trot out the Mitch McConnell quote, “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president," then go down the long list of bills beneficial to the American public that Republicans refused to even consider.

Twice he had this huge opportunity. Or did he consider it and figure it would cast him as being too negative and unable to work across the aisle, facts be damned?
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby other i » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:39 pm

Odd. When I google both
"trickle down"
AND
"prosperity through freedom:
I get a lot of "Milton Friedman".

It seems a case of
"Meet the new cliche (from a dead guy). Same as the old cliche (from the same guy and which is now being used to discredit the antithesis of the new cliche.)"

This is double-plus amazing.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Huckleby » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:44 pm

wack wack wrote:Clear, forceful lies are still lies. Apparently viewers got the "clear and forceful" while listeners picked up on the lies.


well ya, people who went-in convinced Romney's positions were lies came out thinking the same. Obama did little to persuade anyone that Romney was lying.

Lies delivered clearly and forcefully and without challenge are known as successful argument. And by the way, 95% of what Mittens said had some line, thin or otherwise, of truth behind it.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby wack wack » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:58 pm

Huckleby wrote:And by the way, 95% of what Mittens said had some line, thin or otherwise, of truth behind it.


Riiiiight. Which Romney, the one from last night or the one from the past 14 months? That discrepancy alone makes your assertion impossible.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:02 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Do people who are undecided (at this late point in the race) even bother to watch the debates? Honest question, as I have no idea.


As someone still undecided (though to be fair I'm more undecided as to whether I will vote for either of these two or a third party candidate) I skipped the debate. But then watching debates to decide who would be a better president always strikes me as the equivalent of watching Kevin Costner and Robert Redford play catch to determine if the Bull Durham or The Natural were better baseball movies.

ilikebeans wrote:My biggest disappointment in Obama came from two occasions where Romney accused him of not being able to get bipartisan support for his policies. Big, big opportunity there for Obama to point out just how dead-set the Republicans were against cooperating with him on any single thing, even bills that were modeled after what they previously had supported.


I don't think there is a way to say make that statement without sounding like you are whining. "I wanted to be bipartisan but they don't like me" just isn't going to play well, no matter how true it is.
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