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Impressions of the Debate

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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:47 am

Radical Cheerleader wrote:It's not what it actually means, because I'm Jewish, so I do understand the true meaning, but it's that I don't think a lot of the people using it in relation to Obama understand what it means or they're speaking in code like Vilas said. They think of it in reference to Farrakhan first using it in '08. That's where it got started, and for the longest time, wingnuts on the right were trying to call Obama a Kenyan Muslim (some still are, actually).

The messiah references I recall from 2008 had more to do with the right mocking the level of expectation that seemed to be heaped upon Obama (and that the right viewed his campaign as encouraging).
For example
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Radical Cheerleader » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:56 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Radical Cheerleader wrote:It's not what it actually means, because I'm Jewish, so I do understand the true meaning, but it's that I don't think a lot of the people using it in relation to Obama understand what it means or they're speaking in code like Vilas said. They think of it in reference to Farrakhan first using it in '08. That's where it got started, and for the longest time, wingnuts on the right were trying to call Obama a Kenyan Muslim (some still are, actually).

The messiah references I recall from 2008 had more to do with the right mocking the level of expectation that seemed to be heaped upon Obama (and that the right viewed his campaign as encouraging).
For example

I understand that, but this is where the messiah reference actually started Louis Farrakhan: Barack Obama Is "The Messiah" White racists and anti-Islamists took that and ran with it
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Meade » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:03 am

Radical Cheerleader wrote:White racists and anti-Islamists took that and ran with it

Is the writer of the article you linked to an example of what you call "white racists and anti-Islamists" who "ran with it"?
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby scratch » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:08 am

Meade wrote:
Radical Cheerleader wrote:White racists and anti-Islamists took that and ran with it

Is the writer of the article you linked to an example of what you call "white racists and anti-Islamists" who "ran with it"?


You mean you don't remember the writer from your last White Racists and Anti-Islamists Guild meeting?
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Radical Cheerleader » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:11 am

Meade wrote:
Radical Cheerleader wrote:White racists and anti-Islamists took that and ran with it

Is the writer of the article you linked to an example of what you call "white racists and anti-Islamists" who "ran with it"?

No, he's not. The writer wasn't mockingly referring to Obama as the messiah like bdog was. He was just critical of the term and of Obama, which isn't the same thing, so you're using an inaccurate analogy.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:21 am

Radical Cheerleader wrote:No, he's not. The writer wasn't mockingly referring to Obama as the messiah like bdog was, so you're using an inaccurate analogy.


I guess my question has to be, if Bdog could be using the messiah reference for one of two different meanings, why do you presume the race one? Do you assume everyone who dislikes Obama to be racist and if not, how do you determine the difference between the two groups?
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Meade » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:23 am

Mockingly referring to Obama as "the messiah" makes one a racist?
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Meade » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:25 am

Is this racist?:
[M]aybe Barack Obama secretly likes the idea of being worshiped. That kind of thing can be heady, even for an ordinary politician. Being cheered by thousands of people can be a boost to the ego. But it takes a real man, who knows he is only a man, to ignore all that and to acknowledge humility. If Barack Obama can't do that, maybe that is one more reason he should not be President of the United States.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Radical Cheerleader » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:28 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Radical Cheerleader wrote:No, he's not. The writer wasn't mockingly referring to Obama as the messiah like bdog was, so you're using an inaccurate analogy.


I guess my question has to be, if Bdog could be using the messiah reference for one of two different meanings, why do you presume the race one? Do you assume everyone who dislikes Obama to be racist and if not, how do you determine the difference between the two groups?

No, I don't fall into the cliche of everyone-who-dislikes-Obama-is-racist-mold, which is how many conservatives like to conveniently paint Obama supporters. When Bdog calls Obama a messiah, though, he's taking it beyond just disliking Obama for his political views, obviously.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Huckleby » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:36 am

pjbogart wrote:Back on planet earth, Mitt Romney spent an hour and a half spitting lies through his wincing, puckered face. Obama needed to be more aggressive. But the sky is not falling, Mitt Romney is still a douche and he didn't deliver nearly the curb-stomping that you're imagining.


Stylistically, Mitt was outstanding - alive, sharp, quick, confident. Obama just the oppositie. The contrast further amplified each side of this equation. If this was not a beat down, I don't know what would be.

You can not seperate style from substance. All of the "lies" you claim have some thin connection to truth. Deceptive points, made in confident and organized rapid succession, are called winning argments.

pjbogart wrote:The media is a business, they need a horserace. They want the advertising dollars. They created a narrative where Romney obliterated Obama
Sorry, not credible. Letterman and Saturday Night Live were not trying to create a narrative, they were reacting to a genuine spectacle. Chris Matthews' outburst came from the heart. The responses to this debate were not contrived, on news channels or eslewhere.

pjbogart wrote:If public opinion actually has changed that much, it had little to do with the actual debate. It has more to do with the incessant whining about Obama's performance on every news channel.

There is a degree in truth to what you say. We're in an era of hyper media that amplifies everything.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Radical Cheerleader » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:37 am

Meade wrote:Is this racist?:
[M]aybe Barack Obama secretly likes the idea of being worshiped. That kind of thing can be heady, even for an ordinary politician. Being cheered by thousands of people can be a boost to the ego. But it takes a real man, who knows he is only a man, to ignore all that and to acknowledge humility. If Barack Obama can't do that, maybe that is one more reason he should not be President of the United States.

No, it's not. The writer is a conservative, and I don't agree with his personal opinion, but that doesn't make him racist. He did help fuel the fire, though, because the term has evolved and blossomed since then and has clearly turned into code or doublespeak, which is how Bdog used the term messiah when referring to Obama.
The writer did say that "Barack Obama has denounced Louis Farrakhan and his views," so I do give the writer some credit for being honest.
Last edited by Radical Cheerleader on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Meade » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:47 am

Radical Cheerleader wrote:No, it's not [racist]. The writer is a conservative, and I don't agree with his personal opinion, but that doesn't make him racist. He did fuel the fire, though,[...]

How is it that you are not "fueling the fire" yourself by linking to Mark Whittington's essay without adding your own commentary?
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Meade » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:52 am

btw, has Barack Obama himself ever made a speech in which he denounces the idea that he is "the Messiah" and condemns anyone who spreads that idea.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Radical Cheerleader » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:56 am

Meade wrote:
Radical Cheerleader wrote:No, it's not [racist]. The writer is a conservative, and I don't agree with his personal opinion, but that doesn't make him racist. He did fuel the fire, though,[...]

How is it that you are not "fueling the fire" yourself by linking to Mark Whittington's essay without adding your own commentary?

I was just trying to show you where the messiah term started, but in hindsight, I agree that could have either chosen a better article to express my point of view or given my reaction to Mark Whittington's article to make it more clear where I stand in relation to his views. There are plenty of articles that didn't have point of view and were just reporting Farrakhan's comments as news, which might have been best.
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Re: Impressions of the Debate

Postby Radical Cheerleader » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:59 am

Meade wrote:btw, has Barack Obama himself ever made a speech in which he denounces the idea that he is "the Messiah" and condemns anyone who spreads that idea.

He can't waste his time on that crap, and you know it. It was bad enough that he finally had to respond to all of the carnival barkers who kept insisting that he wasn't born in the States, which is side issue that I'm not getting into anymore, either.
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