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Impressions of the VP debate

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Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:34 pm

That was how a debate was supposed to be. It was a good back and forth. Each one of them challenged the other and their facts. I give Kudos to Martha Raddatz for keeping them on topic. I would have liked more questions about social issues, but it was a good emphasis on foreign affairs. I'm trying to get ahead of the dbag pundits on this but can hear them as I type this. Quick and dirty, I thought Biden took this one, but I was impressed by Ryan's knowledge of foreign affairs. More later.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Meade » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:41 pm

Stebben84 wrote:I thought Biden took this one

Good call. Biden hit it out of the park.

Ryan sounded defensive, yelled, kept interrupting, and continually shook his head, rolled his eyes, made big smirking grins, and generally demonstrated that he is a poor listener.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:44 pm

Meade wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:I thought Biden took this one

Good call. Biden hit it out of the park.

Ryan sounded defensive, yelled, kept interrupting, and continually shook his head, rolled his eyes, made big smirking grins, and generally demonstrated that he is a poor listener.

:lol:

Biden was himself, so kudos to him. At least he didn't have a meltdown like his boss.

Ryan was cool, calm, collected and knowledgable.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:49 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Ryan was cool, calm, collected and knowledgable.


Kind of how Obama was yet that was a negative. Figures. Romney kept interrupting and acted feisty so the pundits shit themselves with praise. I guess I'm not surprised.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:09 pm

Biden did an excellent job. The nervous tic of the laughing, especially early on, grades him down a notch.

Ryan did well. I can't say there was a clear winner.

If Obama was there in Biden's place, Obama would have lost that debate. Obama is not a confrontational guy, he is just not built for sharp exchanges. The Dems have many superior debators - Kerrry, Biden, the Clintons. Of course there is more to being a president and campaigning for president than being a bulldog debater.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby pjbogart » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:12 pm

I think the pundits are trying hard to call this a draw because they desperately wanted to declare Ryan the victor but it just didn't make any sense under the circumstances. The narrative they want is that Obama is on the ropes, Romney has taken the lead and Obama needs to hit a home run in the next debate (so you better watch). Biden was aggressive, he even called Ryan a liar for trotting out campaign talking points as though they were facts! Oh, the shame! Calling a liar a liar is a great offense in politics, you're supposed to say "I think my friend is mistaken."

The problem here isn't that Ryan wasn't aggressive enough, nor that Biden was too aggressive. It's that Ryan repeatedly said things that weren't true and Biden, unlike Obama in his debate with Romney, called him out on the lies. The fallback position for Ryan was usually to simply repeat the lie and Biden, unlike Obama, was having none of it.

Demanding that Romney/Ryan provide specifics for their plans, whether that be in regards to economic, foreign policy or social issues, is not a lot to ask of them. Obama became exasperated and simply gave up repeating himself, but Biden refused to give Ryan a pass.

I think it's true that Biden's aggressive, oftentimes disrespectful attitude toward Ryan could be a liability with some voters, but his dogged insistence that Ryan stick to the facts was not disrespectful. It's what Obama should have done last week, and what Biden successfully did tonight.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Sandi » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:13 pm

Wasn’t impressed by either candidate, but was turned off by Biden’s constant smirking, laughing and outright rude (interrupting when it wasn't his time) behavior.

No winners, and definitely not a game changer.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:19 pm

pjbogart wrote:I think the pundits are trying hard to call this a draw because they desperately wanted to declare Ryan the victor but it just didn't make any sense under the circumstances.


You will not let go of the media conspiracy stuff!

I guess in for a penny, in for a pound.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:33 pm

Huckleby wrote:You will not let go of the media conspiracy stuff!


Do you really think the media is that great? I do wait for the overall reaction by many media outlets, but I have to agree with pj that they're a bunch of sensationalists who want the "story" more than the substance. Print media has really surpassed teevee media these days when it comes to reporting. Watching these dipshits on teevee has made me glad I dropped cable/satellite and focused on other forms of information.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Donald » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:45 pm

When my daughter was young we sold our TV. I didn't watch TV news for 10 years. I remember listening to both Reagan-Mondale debates on radio, and it was clear Mondale won both debates on substance that year. Since I guess Reagan didn't drool all over himself in the second debate, he was considered the winner of that debate. After that, I gave up trying to understand what some people think matters, other than substance. If we pick our leaders based on TV appearance, we're in deep trouble. In China they choose leaders based on merit. What a novel idea!!!
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:46 pm

media has always been sensational, sure.

The pundits are not weighting their comments to keep the race competitive, a theory PJ has been championing. Concievably the pundits' corporate overlords think about what outcomes are good for business.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby pjbogart » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:47 pm

Huckleby wrote:
pjbogart wrote:I think the pundits are trying hard to call this a draw because they desperately wanted to declare Ryan the victor but it just didn't make any sense under the circumstances.


You will not let go of the media conspiracy stuff!

I guess in for a penny, in for a pound.


Dude, ABC news had a story on the front page of Google a few days ago proclaiming that this debate had the potential to be a real game changer. It was perhaps the most important Veep debate in the history of Veep debates! Personally, I think interest in watching Sarah Palin fall flat on her face generated far more interest four years ago, but that's pretty much the story, isn't it?

You have to watch this because it's a really big deal! It's a fucking circus, Huck. I really was surprised that the media didn't persist in the Mitt-mentum narrative because Obama still has a significant edge in the electoral college, but recent polling suggests that the popular vote has tightened considerably, with a few pollsters giving a slight edge to Romney. But Ryan looked like a deer in headlights. He wanted to give a stump speech but someone kept interrupting him whenever he lied! The nerve!

Huck, as a self-described "political junkie" you give far too much credence to the opinions of pundits who are paid to have pre-ordained opinions. Media is a business, Huck. Like selling pizza, car insurance or drugs that may or may not kill you. They aren't interested in truth, they're interested in what sells more advertising.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:48 pm

Donald wrote:I remember listening to both Reagan-Mondale debates on radio, and it was clear Mondale won both debates on substance that year.

Please name a politician you disagree with who has won a debate on substance. Extra bonus points if you strongly disagree with him/her. A million dollars if you can cite a debate with Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin.


We all think the debator we agree with won on substance.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:54 pm

pjbogart wrote:Huck, as a self-described "political junkie" you give far too much credence to the opinions of pundits who are paid to have pre-ordained opinions. Media is a business, Huck. Like selling pizza, car insurance or drugs that may or may not kill you. They aren't interested in truth, they're interested in what sells more advertising.


My impression is that pundits may be highly biased, but they have a high level of integrity. Pundits tend to be very passionate about issues, and they speak from the heart.

I am hard pressed to think of pundits that seem contrived..... Well, the campaign spokespeople and the politicians are a waste of time. I'm speaking of the journalistic pundits.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Bwis53 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:12 pm

Ryan looked like Nixon. And he kept drinking a bunch of times. What was in that water?
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