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Impressions of the VP debate

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:45 am

Bludgeon wrote: On display was a 69 year old man who exhibited a number of emotional ticks and peculiarities of a sort that would cause any honest viewer to seriously question his mental fitness, emotional readiness to take on the role of president.


OK, Sean Hannity
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby doppel » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:11 am

pjbogart wrote:
Bludgeon wrote: You're mad that despite Barack Obama being the worst President in history, a secret Kenyan Muslim terrorist Manchurian candidate, he still has a virtual lock on the electoral college.

You sound like a child throwing a temper tantrum. WHY WON'T EVERYONE AGREE WITH ME???

It's because you're wrong, Bludge. Again.


Well fuck having an election, the great and powerful PJ has spoken. And with only a medium tantrum. Do NOT goad him any more, or we will suffer the his full wrath. WHY WON'T EVERYONE AGREE WITH ME???
Indeed.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:43 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Bludgeon wrote: On display was a 69 year old man who exhibited a number of emotional ticks and peculiarities of a sort that would cause any honest viewer to seriously question his mental fitness, emotional readiness to take on the role of president.


OK, Sean Hannity


You don't have to be S. H. to seriously question Biden's fitness to be president. Just ask my liberal friend here:

Huckleby wrote:Biden was an extremely effective senator, of course that was back in the days when the Congress actually functioned. He is probably too quirky to be a President.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:43 pm

ahhh, but I was being nice. you were a meany.

Biden is not emotionally unstable, as you allege. On contrary, the guy is level-headed. I really don't think his dismissive laughing and other superficial oddities are such a big deal. But I acknowledge that "Joe being Joe" is not the best for an executive.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:02 pm

Huckleby wrote:ahhh, but I was being nice. you were a meany.

Biden is not emotionally unstable, as you allege. On contrary, the guy is level-headed. I really don't think his dismissive laughing and other superficial oddities are such a big deal. But I acknowledge that "Joe being Joe" is not the best for an executive.


I wasn't trying to be mean, just trying to be clear. I mean he was in front of thousands of people a little over a week ago and said "the middle class has been buried in the last four years..." Over the last year I could probably find a hundred examples of his accelerating descent. I think he's mostly still with it. Then again I don't think anybody from the Obama campaign would have advised him to say, "put ya'll back in chains."

Maybe the charge and burden of responsibility that was on his shoulders on Thursday to try to slow the Obama campaign's free fall was just too much for a guy like Joe. A lot has to be expected out of both sides of the ticket in a competitive nationwide campaign, maybe the stress and the attention just blew his circuits. He spent all week with Axelrod supervising his debate prep; he knew he had to try to make liberals happy, what ended up coming out of him was as much voltage as the campaign could manage to push out of his 20 watt fuse...

That's as nice as I can put it lol. I tried.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Huckleby » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:17 pm

I was joking about the meany. I don't agree at all that Biden is slipping, the "skippage" you see is the way Biden has always been, spontanous and honest, and sometimes the words come out wrong. No big deal.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:54 pm

minicat wrote:It's hard for anyone to come off looking very good in a debate where you've got Howdy Doody sitting there spouting a stream of lies


We report, you decide:

Image

You are welcome.

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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Meade » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:08 pm

Number of times Biden spoke critically of Mitt Romney..... 26

Number of times Ryan spoke critically of Barack Obama....24

Number of times Ryan spoke well of Mitt Romney............19

Number of times Biden spoke well of Barack Obama......... 1

(Here is the transcript in case anyone wants to check my math:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... print.html)
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby DCB » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:40 pm

What digby said:

But this lop-sided whine is simply ridiculous. Obama failed to prepare and parry Romney's attacks and he suffered for it. The winsome Ryan deserved to be skewered and Biden did the deed with relish. That's politics. All this Miss Manners pearl clutching by the Republicans and their mouthpieces in the press is idiotic.

Ryan thought he could pull his fast-talking car-salesmen schtick and pretend he had a 'bipartisan' budget plan. Biden wouldn't let him get away with it. That's not 'rude', that's effective debating. And it spares the audience from listening to Ryan try to run out the clock with his bullshit.
RYAN: ... income adjusts (inaudible) these premium support payments by taking down the subsidies for wealthy people.

Look, this is a plan -- by the way, that $6,400 number, it was misleading then, it's totally inaccurate now. This is a plan that's bipartisan. It's a plan I put together with a prominent Democrat senator from Oregon.

BIDEN: There's not one Democrat who endorses it.

RYAN: It's a plan...

BIDEN: Not one Democrat who (inaudible).

RYAN: Our partner is a Democrat from Oregon.

BIDEN: And he said he does no longer support (inaudible).

RYAN: We -- we -- we put it -- we put it together with the former Clinton budget director.

BIDEN: Who disavows it.

RYAN: This idea -- this idea came from the Clinton commission to save Medicare chaired by Senator John Breaux.

Here's the point, Martha.

BIDEN: Which was rejected.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Sandi » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:02 pm

A transcript of a briefing that high-ranking State department officials gave to reporters via conference call a few days ago appears to be just released today on the State department web site.

It looks like Hillary is refusing to be thrown under the bus, which is great, as she is a very good Secretary of State. It is pretty long, but some of the answers to reporters shows that the State dept, while tip-toeing around outright blaming the WH, rejects Biden's and Obama's account.

QUESTION: Hi, yes. You described several incidents you had with groups of men, armed men. What in all of these events that you’ve described led officials to believe for the first several days that this was prompted by protests against the video?

SENIOR STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL TWO: That is a question that you would have to ask others. That was not our conclusion. I’m not saying that we had a conclusion, but we outlined what happened. The Ambassador walked guests out around 8:30 or so, there was no one on the street at approximately 9:40, then there was the noise and then we saw on the cameras the – a large number of armed men assaulting the compound.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Meade » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:15 pm

Sandi, is that the briefing where they excluded Fox News?
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Sandi » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:25 pm

Meade wrote:Sandi, is that the briefing where they excluded Fox News?


Just ran across it a bit ago and have no idea what media where allowed. Actually I found it originally on Power Line, but prefer the source for linking.

Edit: Meade, the Power Line post is here if you want it. I also posted it on madisonforum.net.
Last edited by Sandi on Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Slick Willy » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:44 pm

Sandi wrote:It looks like Hillary is refusing to be thrown under the bus, which is great, as she is a very good Secretary of State. It is pretty long, but some of the answers to reporters shows that the State dept, while tip-toeing around outright blaming the WH, rejects Biden's and Obama's account.

Nobody tried to throw Hillary under the bus. Biden blamed flawed information from intelligence. The State Dept. didn't need to reject the WH's claim, because they had already acknowledged that it was a terrorist attack and not a protest demonstration in response to a YouTube video.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby Sandi » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:49 pm

Slick Willy wrote:
Sandi wrote:It looks like Hillary is refusing to be thrown under the bus, which is great, as she is a very good Secretary of State. It is pretty long, but some of the answers to reporters shows that the State dept, while tip-toeing around outright blaming the WH, rejects Biden's and Obama's account.

Nobody tried to throw Hillary under the bus. Biden blamed flawed information from intelligence. The State Dept. didn't need to reject the WH's claim, because they had already acknowledged that it was a terrorist attack and not a protest demonstration in response to a YouTube video.


Yes, but you are conveniently ignoring the timeline. The WH knew within 24hrs that it was an attack, and not a protest. One has to wonder where the YouTube protest contention came from, and it was never mentioned by the State dept or the security in Libya.
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Re: Impressions of the VP debate

Postby pjbogart » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:10 pm

Sandi wrote:A transcript of a briefing that high-ranking State department officials gave to reporters via conference call a few days ago appears to be just released today on the State department web site.

It looks like Hillary is refusing to be thrown under the bus, which is great, as she is a very good Secretary of State. It is pretty long, but some of the answers to reporters shows that the State dept, while tip-toeing around outright blaming the WH, rejects Biden's and Obama's account.


A few points. One, if you'd like to relate this to the thread you should at the very least mention that in the debate Biden denied having misled the public on the timeline related to the Benghazi attacks. I know you'd like to insert your tin-foil hat conspiracy theories wherever possible, but at least tell us how your delusions relate to the topic at hand.

Two, there is nothing in that transcript, nor in the testimony to congress which the conference call preceded, which suggests that the White House or State Department are in any disagreement. "Hillary refusing to be thrown under the bus," suggests that Hillary Clinton has been accused of something, which is a fantasy that has been fully fleshed out by FoxNews but has no basis on the planet Earth. If you have some evidence that the White House has accused Hillary Clinton of something, or vice versa, let us know.

Three, why would you rely upon some vague references in a conference call when you can reference the actual hearing where they spoke to the State Department officials? There is evidence that the State Department refused to heighten security for arguably political reasons (though not really Republican/Democrat political reasons), the goal of normalization in Libya and turning security over to Libyan agencies raised concerns from diplomats, significantly a cable from Ambassador Stevens on the day that he was killed. But there is no evidence that Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama were directly engaged in such discussions, and certainly no evidence that either one is attempting to blame the other, which appears to be your contention.

You can actually google all of this information, rather than relying on links from known liars.
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