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Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Bland » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:29 am

ArturoBandini wrote:The psychology behind emotional objections to price gouging is based in irrational thinking and economic ignorance.
This presupposes that the best system for getting resources to people is a free market economy yet isn't that the very supposition that is under debate?
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Donald » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:24 am

Boy, some people cling to their ideology like they cling to religion and guns. Here's a way to prevent shortages: arrest or kill the fucking bastards who would gouge during a life-or-death emergency. You wouldn't have to kill but one or two and others would get the message.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Huckleby » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:25 am

Donald wrote:Boy, some people cling to their ideology like they cling to religion and guns. Here's a way to prevent shortages: arrest or kill the fucking bastards who would gouge during a life-or-death emergency. You wouldn't have to kill but one or two and others would get the message.


heee heee heee - you ridicule libertarian idealogues, and then express an ideology midway between Castro and Stalin.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:34 am

Profiteering during wartime (we are still at war) used to be considered a serious offense.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Huckleby » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:42 am

we put Japanese citizens in camps during wartime too.

I'm OK with the gov providing free or low cost goods during emergencies. Price controls rub me the wrong way, that goes too far and may be harmful. There is something to the argument that the market can do its thing too.
Last edited by Huckleby on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:44 am

Huckleby wrote:we put Japanese citizens in camps during wartime too.

Huh?
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:44 am

Heck've a job Bloomie-ey and Obama-ey!

"Starving New Yorkers Resort to Dumpster Diving in Desperate Attempt to Find Food

As the death toll officially reaches 98 from Hurricane Sandy, we’re seeing heartbreaking images of starving people in New York ‘dumpster diving’ in a desperate attempt to find food.

In a shocking report, WNBC-TV reporter Jonathan Vigliotti said people are “so hungry they literally pried open this dumpster — you see that door open right now — and they are literally picking through for whatever they can take home with themselves.”

“We’ve seen everyone here from the elderly, to families with children, literally up on top of this,” he added.

Watch the video on RadarOnline.com

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2 ... ving-video
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Huckleby » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:48 am

Ned Flanders wrote:Heck've a job Bloomie-ey and Obama-ey!


You must be a big government believer if you think that the government can repair damage on this scale in under a week. Goddamn commy.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Woofer » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:02 am

I'm not trying to be heartless OR obtuse... but isn't it pretty commonplace in larger cities to see people foraging in dumpsters? I mean, the article doesn't say exactly who these folks are or what their stories are-- perhaps they're folks who'd be dumpster-diving even under the best environmental conditions in NYC? Regardless, I'm trying to imagine an instance where a headline like "People Dumpster-Dive in New York!" would get a second look otherwise...
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby rrnate » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:07 am

Ned Flanders wrote:Heck've a job Bloomie-ey and Obama-ey!

"Starving New Yorkers Resort to Dumpster Diving in Desperate Attempt to Find Food

As the death toll officially reaches 98 from Hurricane Sandy, we’re seeing heartbreaking images of starving people in New York ‘dumpster diving’ in a desperate attempt to find food.

In a shocking report, WNBC-TV reporter Jonathan Vigliotti said people are “so hungry they literally pried open this dumpster — you see that door open right now — and they are literally picking through for whatever they can take home with themselves.”

“We’ve seen everyone here from the elderly, to families with children, literally up on top of this,” he added.

Watch the video on RadarOnline.com

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2 ... ving-video


ArturoBandini Paraphrased wrote:The market has made it so. I have no moral issue with these people using the means they feel comfortable with to achieve nourishment. They were clearly in a bad place before if they need to dumpster dive now and their lack of foresight isn't something we should all have to pay for. *Cackles maniacally*
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby rrnate » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:08 am

Woofer wrote:I'm not trying to be heartless OR obtuse... but isn't it pretty commonplace in larger cities to see people foraging in dumpsters? I mean, the article doesn't say exactly who these folks are or what their stories are-- perhaps they're folks who'd be dumpster-diving even under the best environmental conditions in NYC? Regardless, I'm trying to imagine an instance where a headline like "People Dumpster-Dive in New York!" would get a second look otherwise...


Uh, yeah. In fact, that happens in mega-metropolises like our own every single day (where also, people are starving from lack of food).

I appreciate Ned's concern and suggest that he make a donation to a NYC-based food pantry or perhaps does so in his own backyard.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby mrak » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:21 am

kurt_w wrote:
The Troll Flanders wrote:Heck've a job Obama-ey!

Two thoughts about this:

(1) It speaks volumes that even Ned understands that comparing Obama to Bush is a way to attack Obama. It's nice to know that Flanders has internalized the fact that the Bush Administration's record was one of unmitigated failure.

Oh, the GOP is well aware that Gee-Dubya is the Gold Standard of Presidential Failure. He's been conspicuously missing from this campaign season for good reason.

Even now, he's hiding from public scrutiny (along with Mitt's financial holdings) in the Caymans.

(2) Reminding people of how badly Bush and his disgraced FEMA head screwed up during Hurricane Katrina is probably not what Ned wants to be doing at this point.

Shhhhhhh!
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Madcity Expat » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:45 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Donald wrote:Boy, some people cling to their ideology like they cling to religion and guns. Here's a way to prevent shortages: arrest or kill the fucking bastards who would gouge during a life-or-death emergency. You wouldn't have to kill but one or two and others would get the message.


heee heee heee - you ridicule libertarian idealogues, and then express an ideology midway between Castro and Stalin.


Hmmm... interesting, but I think Donald is describing a tactic rather than an ideology. Stalin was certainly a brutal SOB, but for violence elevated to ideological terms, I think you have to look to fascism, particularly the Nazis.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Huckleby » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:31 pm

Madcity Expat wrote: Stalin was certainly a brutal SOB, but for violence elevated to ideological terms, I think you have to look to fascism, particularly the Nazis.

I think Solzhenitsyn would tell you a different story about the ideological nature of the Soviet Union.

Speaking of enemies of the people, FOX is back at it. The angle they are working now is to amplify the anger of the people in Jersey, Staten Island, etc. They are trying to erase the feel-good story of government responsiveness. They are juxtaposing angry citizens and "self-congratulatory politicians." Gee, I wonder who they have in mind.

Rather ironic that these small government advocates think our Feds ought to be able to swoop-in and restore power to 8 million people in a matter of days.

Look for a wall-to-wall weekend of angry, suffering faces, and talk of do-nothing politicians.
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Madcity Expat » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:04 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Madcity Expat wrote: Stalin was certainly a brutal SOB, but for violence elevated to ideological terms, I think you have to look to fascism, particularly the Nazis.

I think Solzhenitsyn would tell you a different story about the ideological nature of the Soviet Union.


I have no illusions about the ideological nature of the Soviet Union. And perhaps you have a point regarding the Gulag system, if their purpose was truly brutality as a method of re-education. The only Solzhenitsyn I've read is A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich. It's been a while, but my reading of that book was that ideology in the camps was a facade masking a more basic human brutality - bullying, really - a hyper-magnified version of 8th grade big kids beating up 7th grade nerdy kids. And my interpretation of Soviet history is that Stalin had more in common with Capone than Lenin. Violence was a tool.

Fascism, on the other hand, elevates violence into a key aspect of its theory of political power - in other words, invests it with ideological content.

I dunno... maybe that's splitting hairs. But perhaps for that reason Nazi fascism always struck me as more villainous - just plan more evil -than Stalin's Soviet Union. Stalin's atrocities were certainly comparable to Nazi Germany... but for the Nazis, violence was the point - it was the aim, the object - in a way that seems beyond even the most brutal garden variety strong-man.

/hijack (sorry...)
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