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Romney Believers

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Romney Believers

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:39 am

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold- ... igins.aspx

I am not in the least bit surprised that the percentage of Americans who believe in creationism is almost exactly the same as the percentage of Americans who will likely vote for Romney. I can't escape the idea that lack of reason and dismissal of evidence are the cause of both.
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:55 am

What does President Obama believe?

Hard to believe he is going to vote for Romney, but AFAIK he is not an atheist either.
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:58 am

Pretty big difference between being a creationist and simply believing in God. In fact, that's reflected in the poll. 35% of Americans believe evolution happened but was directed by God.
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:00 am

What type of reasoning (or lack thereof) is that? You imply that non-atheists all believe in creationism. What about you?
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby Galoot » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:03 am

Wags, I bet there is almost perfect 1:1 correlation between those two, creationism and voting for Romney.

And I agree, it comes down to a lack of critical thinking skills. And you'd be surprised where this lack is found, in people that seem to otherwise be pretty sharp and skeptical. My ex-wife teaches at the UW vet school, and is very very good at what she does. Yet I recall when this issue came up (creationism vs. evolution in schools) she accused me of being closed-minded, for not "giving the other side a chance, because isn't their opinion just as valid as yours?"

That is someone who was all-but-dissertation for a PhD in some aspect of veterinary medicine, yet who still couldn't openly say that creationism simply isn't science.

I think her father was of the same bent, and he is a man who studied under Doc Edgerton at MIT, helped invent the cell phone at AT&T, and was one of the most brilliant engineer/scientists I've ever known. But he was still a creationist. Utterly bizarre.
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:08 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Pretty big difference between being a creationist and simply believing in God. In fact, that's reflected in the poll. 35% of Americans believe evolution happened but was directed by God.

Hmmmm...I didn't see that part. Seems like a shell game to me. Don't the creationists think that God "planted" the evolution evidence. The way I see it if you believe in God all bets are off.

Personally I think you're nuts if you believe in a God or Gods. But...I know people who are filled with happiness due to that belief and are genuinely "live and let live" types of people. So...whatever floats your boat I guess.

I actually think it might be a very scary world if everyone lost their irrational beliefs, such as there is any inherent "goodness" in human beings.

How about you Henry?
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:12 am

Galoot wrote:...helped invent the cell phone at AT&T...

For this may he burn forever in (the non-existent) Hell
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:15 am

Galoot wrote:I bet there is almost perfect 1:1 correlation between those two, creationism and voting for Romney.
Honestly, I wish it were that simple (and I admit to essentially arguing likewise with my thread title and OP) but unfortunately, the poll also shows that 41%(!) of Democrats believe in young-Earth-style creationism. That said, I doubt many of those who identify themselves as Dems will be voting for Romney this election, so at least they are willing to set aside their religious beliefs when it comes to politics. Also, most polls show that roughly 99% of scientists agree that evolution occurred and took millions of years, so my position that believers choose to ignore evidence remains valid.
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby gargantua » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:24 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Pretty big difference between being a creationist and simply believing in God. In fact, that's reflected in the poll. 35% of Americans believe evolution happened but was directed by God.

That's understandable. If one has a strong belief in a deity, and is presented with evidence that contradicts some of the underlying tenets of that faith, seems like human nature to interpret the evidence in a manner that allows one to keep their faith.
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby Meade » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:32 am

God is dead? Guess not.

So does that mean theothanatology is dead? No, not really.

Want to know who is dead?



Image
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby bdog » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:44 am

Given a belief in God, arguing about what is rational reminds me of this conversation:

Vern: Do you think Mighty Mouse could beat up Superman?

Teddy: What are you, cracked?

Vern: Why not? I saw the other day. He was carrying five elephants in one hand!

Teddy: Boy, you don't know nothing! Mighty Mouse is a cartoon. Superman's a real guy. There's no way a cartoon could beat up a real guy.

Vern: Yeah, maybe you're right. It'd be a good fight, though.
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby Meade » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:12 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:I am not in the least bit surprised that the percentage of Americans who believe in creationism is almost exactly the same as the percentage of Americans who will likely vote for Romney.

Another prediction of a Romney win. Someone tell Nate Silver.
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:19 pm

bdog wrote:How about you Henry?

I have no religious faith. And as far as evolution, the evidence is overwhelming, including evidence of human evolution.

Now why don't you ask your buddy, Meade? (If he is willing to answer honestly and directly.)
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:28 pm

Meade wrote:Another prediction of a Romney win.
Let's see how many idiotic things there are in this single sentence, shall we?

1. I didn't really make a prediction. I simply restated what we all already know: somewhere close to half the population will likely vote for Romney.
2. What could Meade possibly mean by "another" prediction? Is anyone who is not a transparently partisan hack predicting anything but an Obama win?
3. 46% of the population doesn't automatically translate to the 270 electoral votes needed to win, so what the hell is Meade talking about to begin with?

Wow. There are half as many idiocies as there were words in the post. That's a mighty impressive ratio, even for someone as consistently stupid as Meade.
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Re: Romney Believers

Postby Meade » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:07 pm

You're right, I'm an idiot. I read the first "Americans" in your sentence as "Republicans". Thanks for the correction.

58% is the percentage of people who identify themselves as Republican who also believe God created humans in present form within the last 10,000 years. 58% of the electorate would be a huge landslide. Of course, neither candidate will get that.

But Obama's problem will be getting the votes of Independents and Democrats who are not also atheists. Most people didn't realize, in 2008, that Obama is an atheist. Now, most do. Many of the 73% of Democrats and 73% of Independents who are not atheists themselves will be reluctant, in 2012, to vote for someone they now realize is an atheist.
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