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Greatest Group of People In History

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Greatest Group of People In History

Postby Remember_Me » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:55 am

Every time I feel like pulling my hair out over our election process, I'm reminded of just how fortunate we are to have it.

Nonstop negative ads and all.

BEIJING (AP) — Where can a pop star score a hit by talking about the U.S. Electoral College for 33 minutes? In China, where Gao Xiaosong's straightforward explanation of the system drew more than 1 million hits in four days.

Chinese have long been fascinated with U.S. presidential elections, but interest is particularly high this year because Americans are voting at the same time Beijing is going through its own political transition. A generation of Communist Party leaders will step down next week to make way for younger colleagues after a highly secretive selection process.

For many ordinary Chinese, comparisons are irresistible.

In a political cartoon circulated online, an American voter covers his ears as the candidates verbally attack each other on TV, while a Chinese man struggles to hear anything from the party congress, taking place behind closed doors.

"Every political system has its pros and cons, but I do think it will be great if I get to participate and get to make a decision after the candidates tell me what their platforms are for the next four years," said Guo Xiaoqiao, a freelance worker in human resources.

Chinese delight in speculating whether President Barack Obama will fend off Republican challenger Mitt Romney, but they are more captivated by Americans' ability to vote for their leader. Their own leaders are distant figures whom they have no way of replacing.

"The 18th Party Congress is a meeting for the party. We ordinary people can only watch it as an audience," said Wang Xiaojian, a 21-year-old Peking University student. "The U.S. presidential election is a campaign that gets everyone involved."

As Gao, a pop singer and musician known for his syrupy ballads, found out, many Chinese are even interested in the U.S. Electoral College, the often perplexing system in which the president is elected not by individual votes, but by the candidates' state-by-state performance.

In a video from his online talk show that was posted on the popular video-sharing site Youku.com, Gao explained that the college is an attempt to balance the rights of states with the will of the majority.

"The opinion of the state is important; so is that of the people," Gao said. He called America's founding fathers the "greatest group of people in history."


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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:26 am

Remember_Me wrote:Every time I feel like pulling my hair out over our election process, I'm reminded of just how fortunate we are to have it.


Amen to that. The Electoral College system is truly amazing.

We would be nuts to change it.

It is at the very foundation of the entire concept of the United States

He certainly is right about the Founding Fathers. They nailed it with the Constitution. It is the oldest written constitution in the world. Older, IIRC, than the next 5 or so combined. Only a few pages long and in over 200 years we have only had to modify it 16 times. (If we count the Bill of Rights as part of the original)

Not bad. Not bad at all.

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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:23 am

Johnny, either your math skills are horrible or you need to update your musty old U.S. history book. There are 27 amendments to the U.S. Constitution.
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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby kurt_w » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:03 am

Considering that John Henry is perhaps the single most consistently wrong poster on the DPF, the fact that he's a big fan of the electoral college just might be the strongest argument for eliminating the EC.

He's not even a stopped clock that's right twice a day. He's a clock that is consistently off by 3 hours 43 minutes and 18 seconds, meaning that he's never right in any time zone anywhere. If that clock tells you that it's 8:15 am, the one thing you can be sure of is that there's no place in the known universe where the time is currently 8:15 am. That's our John Henry for you.
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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:12 am

Millions of American citizens (those who live in Washington, D.C. and U.S. territories), who have every other right of citizenship, cannot vote in federal elections because of our Electoral College system. That flies in the face of the principles of participatory democracy.

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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:13 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Johnny, either your math skills are horrible or you need to update your musty old U.S. history book. There are 27 amendments to the U.S. Constitution.


Read my post, Henry.

I was off by 1. I said 16 "(If we count the Bill of Rights as part of the original)" which we probably should as the Constitution probably could not have been ratified without them.

Seems to me that we shouldn't really count changes to a Constitution that had not been ratified. Your mileage may vary.

In any event, whether you prefer to count 27 or 17, it is still pretty remarkable longevity with very little change. So my point stands.

John Henry



So stop your
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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:16 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Millions of American citizens (those who live in Washington, D.C. and U.S. territories), who have every other right of citizenship, cannot vote in federal elections because of our Electoral College system. That flies in the face of the principles of participatory democracy.


And you might wish to update your musty old history book, Henry.

DC has had the presidential vote since 1961. So changing the electoral college would do nothing for them.

And where do people get the idea that the US is supposed to be a democracy? Can you point that out in the Constitution?

Please?

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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:21 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:I was off by 1.

That is exactly what I was talking about. I can do simple math. Can you?
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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:28 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:cannot vote in federal elections because of our Electoral College system.


Rather sloppy there Henry.

The electoral college has nothing to do with "federal elections", it has to do with a federal election, the presidential one. In which ALL voting rights are granted by the state, not the feds.

See Article 2, Section 1.

The other federal elections, Congress, Senate, have nothing to do with the EC.

Living in the Commonwealth/Free Associated State (not territory) we cast no electoral votes nor vote for Senate/House. And that is fine with me.

You should be agitating for us to become either a state or independent. Or else eliminate birthright citizenship for PR. Perpetual Commonwealth status is a blot on the US Constitution.

John Henry
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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:30 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:I was off by 1.

That is exactly what I was talking about. I can do simple math. Can you?


I can do simple math. I can even do fairly complex math (beyond fingers and toes)

I can do fact checking too and should have verified the number of amendments rather than trust to memory.

John Henry
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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:31 pm

For a person excluded from voting in the presidental election (as well as any other federal election), I find it strange that you defend the Electoral College system of choosing a president.
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Re: Greatest Group of People In History

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:42 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:For a person excluded from voting in the presidental election (as well as any other federal election), I find it strange that you defend the Electoral College system of choosing a president.


Perhaps it is because I understand how the Constitution works.

We are the United States

Not the United Provinces
Not the United Counties
Not the United territories

But the United States

Do you understand the meaning of the word state? As used in the Constitution by the Founding Fathers?

The President is elected by the states. It is a state Constitution that gives you voting rights. Not the federal.

Go look at Iguartua v. US (there are actually 4 cases. The guy just won't stop)

The First Circuit Court of Appeals is pretty clear on voting rights. Neither you nor I have any, as US citizens.

Such voting rights as we have stem from our state citizenship. Not being a citizen of a state, in the meaning of the Constitution, I have no voting rights for Prez, Senate nor House.

And I am fine with that.

As I have said, the Constitution is an amazing document both in its brevity and scope as well as the minimal need for changes over 200+ years.

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