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Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby scratch » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:11 pm

jjoyce wrote:Do I contradict myself?


I think it could be argued that you do, at least in spirit, but I'm willing to buy your rationale and alter my forum behavior accordingly.

However, it would be nice to know why Genie and others were banned in the past and what the difference is with Meade. Is it just the number of posts he makes or is there a qualitative difference, too?
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby jjoyce » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:39 pm

Like any decent message board, we reserve the right to ban anyone at any time for any reason. People have cried foul even when we banned people for deliberately and clearly threatening to harm others physically, so what's the point of trying to justify every decision?

We rarely ban, so when we do it's because things have gotten to the point of being really, really bad.

Using the example here, it's bewildering that people actually think someone who so repeatedly ran afoul of this community's few standards was treated unfairly.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby Endo Rockstar » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:18 pm

I’ll make this point and then I’ll move along.

Do a quick search of Meade’s posts. You’ll find that most of what he writes is not terribly provocative. His strength on the forum is timing, delivery, and finding the right material to which he responds. He’s the quintessential devil’s advocate and is able to play obtuse better than most. When matched with his penname’s moral ambiguity and a point of view that’s widely regarded as “un-Madison,” he becomes the human torch of lighting fires on this forum.

Like all good trolls, Meade is able to elicit explosive responses because he chooses topics that appeal to emotional aspects of your life. Would someone speak to you like this while having a face-to-face conversation? No. In person we have tact, empathy, and social boundaries. The reason you get angry and have an irresistible urge to login and call him an asshole is because he’s breaking the social contract human beings use to interact with one another. In short, it's unnatural.

My personal opinion is that his “content” in the discussion about Paulie Heenan was in piss-poor taste. He took a tried and true approach to most discussions on TDPF and made comments meant to stir up lively conjecture and debate. I think he realized he fucked up a little too late as it was apparent folks weren’t just bitching about politics or making the usual snarky comments on a topic to pass the time – but were instead reeling on a deeply personal and emotional level. To his credit he did (I’m assuming) make a donation in Paulie Heenan’s name to the Oregon School District to make amends – of course in true Meade fashion he then fucked that up too by announcing to the forum what he had just done. Feel free to make your own psychological inferences from that nugget.

I guess I’m writing this to say I agree with Joyce’s decision and comments about “banning” Meade. He’s a retard but he’s our retard. He wouldn’t be here if there wasn’t a niche to fill. So live and let live I guess.

Meade, I will say however, you’re relatively new to Madison. So for fucks sake, play nice every once in a while – “When in Rome…yadi yada yada.” I’m not asking that you become flaming bleeding-heart liberal or anything. Just have a little respect for the people in the community that you’re now part of. If you do that you’ll get the same back.

-Dan Motor
Last edited by Endo Rockstar on Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:21 pm

No respect. This board is what jjoyce allows it to be. A sandbox for Meade to throw his shit at grieving people. Hope you're proud of your work here.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby mrak » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:24 pm

So to recap, Forons:

1. The Forum will continue to be hostile to your attempts to contribute to it, if admin can help it.

2. Any content you offer the Forum can and will be drowned out in a tsunami of trolling and troll-feeding, with management's tacit approval.

3. Your only choice in the matter is whether you wish to keep contributing free content to a forum that's run in this manner.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby Michael Patrick » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:44 pm

mrak wrote:So to recap, Forons:

1. The Forum will continue to be hostile to your attempts to contribute to it, if admin can help it.

2. Any content you offer the Forum can and will be drowned out in a tsunami of trolling and troll-feeding, with management's tacit approval.

3. Your only choice in the matter is whether you wish to keep contributing free content to a forum that's run in this manner.


As a point of order in reference to #3, it's not just content but also page views. So if you keep clicking on threads started by someone you detest even if you decide not to post a response, you are helping to perpetuating the status quo.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby massimo » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:52 pm

How do ad blockers factor into the discussion? Is ad revenue driven by the number of times an ad image is fetched? Clicked on? Or do advertisers just pay out based on site traffic, regardless of fetches or clicks?

Can a site admin identify those visitors who use an ad blocker?
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby mrak » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:06 pm

Different sites use different ad revenue models.
But it's a pretty safe bet that, given how strongly Jason has spoken out against ad blocking in the past, it will deny a site some ad revenue.

So a two-pronged approach of:
1. refraining from giving a site free content, and
2. restricting their ad revenue stream via ad blocking

...might be a good way of showing the operators of a website that you don't care much for how they're running it.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby david cohen » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:09 pm

One day something terribly awful will happen to Lawrence Meade. Karma dictates this. It is inevitable. Until then, TDPF will allow him to build up "terribly awful" points. That's mighty fucking charitable, if you ask me.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby pjbogart » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:05 pm

Jason certainly has a point that trolls bring traffic but it seems that there must be some limitation on just how disruptive they can become before they become a drag on readership. If TDPF is doing particularly well with ad revenue lately, I'd be more tempted to credit the 2012 election than Laurence Meade. Regardless, it's Jason's call and if that causes some forons to take their "free content" elsewhere, he'll get credit for that as well.

But most importantly, the unscratchable itch which causes so many forons to respond to Meade isn't exactly helping to silence him. When I was a teenager we had a Sheltie that would bark like crazy at anyone he saw. A doorbell, a knock, the sound of the mailman coming up the steps... that dog just lost it every time. You could yell at him, swat him on the nose, put him in his cage, nothing taught that dog not to bark. It was literally his nature. He couldn't help himself.

So the next time Meade decides to knock, try not to bark.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby snoqueen » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:09 pm

Refraining from giving free content hits the mark for me. I've definitely lost energy for writing thoughtful stuff on this forum in the past six months. I've gone from insightful to mundane, and I know it. I know why, too. There are some sharp writers and readers here -- there have been, for years -- but admin's priorities are no longer focused on maintaining quality, and as a result quality has been replaced with a demolition derby sensibility.

If that's what non-participating readers want to see on a daily basis, I don't know when they changed their minds. Unfortunately, we suppliers of free content also write for one another, and the demolition derby mentality isn't going to maintain an atmosphere where we'll do that indefinitely. I don't think we'll disappear all at once. Instead we'll post more intermittently and eventually move on, or only show up for big events like demonstrations and elections.

I'm not sure the itch to slap Meade(s) down is ignorable, because it flies in the face of any remaining investment we regulars have in quality. Some of the slaps are dead-on and maintain the illusion, but it's not the same as a sustained, thought-out, even funny dialog over time and across topics.

The last (unfinished) bit of drama, where a well-liked forum and community member and music fan, in the line of duty, ended up shooting a well-liked musician and community member under extremely tragic circumstances, was the last straw. Instead of extending sympathy, remembering the dead, and offering community support and understanding to the others in the drama, we wound up watching Meade shit all over another three or four topics people started with true concern and good hearts. Nothing would stop him. This is utterly unsupportable and I'm too disgusted to even read it over. I think if I did I would get sick.

It's been a good ten years, but nothing lasts for ever.
Last edited by snoqueen on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:16 pm

snoqueen wrote:I'm not sure the itch to slap Meade down is ignorable
It is. I and several others have been refraining now for awhile. Heck, if you feel like you just have to get out how you feel about his inanity, go ahead and write a response. Just don't click "Submit".

Wagstrade is at 99% for the proposition: "If everyone stopped responding to him for a few weeks, Meade would go away."
But I'm pretty certain we'll never know for sure, which is a real shame.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby Meade » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:20 pm

pj, snowqueen, wagstaff, shouldn't you all be at your friend's memorial service? The friend you purport to have known and loved so well. Or are you in fact there now, posting to internet forums on your BlackBerries? I hope you have enough respect to at least turn your ringers off.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby snoqueen » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:21 pm

Wags: I'm willing to try. I was doing pretty well until the shooting. That was just over the top.
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Re: Contempt For The Community Will Be Encouraged

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:34 pm

snoqueen wrote:I'm willing to try. I was doing pretty well until the shooting. That was just over the top.
I didn't say it was easy.
Staying logged in and keeping him on ignore helps a lot.

The fact is, almost everything about the shooting has been hard when it comes to the Internet. I didn't know Paulie, but I am friends with Steve. But most of the people I know on Facebook were the opposite, and listening to some of the very hateful things they've said has been difficult, even if those comments are most definitely in the minority (Most have been thoughtful reflections about their friend, which have been heartbreaking to read for a much different reason, of course.) Out of respect for the deceased and those who mourn him, I have mostly kept silent, but those of us who know Steve can say with near certainty that he's surely as upset by this tragic incident as anyone. I know he can't respond here, but if he's reading this, I hope he knows I am not alone in feeling profound sadness for what he must be going through.
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