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Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby scratch » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:26 am

Meade wrote:Maurer seems to be saying that Heenan's alleged intoxication was the equivalent of dementia and psychosis. Why would anyone allow himself to become intoxicated to the level of dementia or psychosis?


I'm tempted to respond that the answer to your "why" question lies in the fact that unlike you, not everybody dwells in a constant state of psychosis, but that would be trollish, perhaps not by TDPF standards, but so, nonetheless.

To give a more reasoned answer, though, I suggest that Maurer wasn't making a literal comparison of dementia, psychosis, and the level of anyone in particular's intoxication. More like making the case that in instances where individuals exhibit diminished capacities, the cops tread more lightly than they might otherwise. Of course the cop (or other minions of legitimate behavior) may not always have the time to make this judgement, as may have been the case here. I don't know and I'm content to let this question be worked out by the responsible parties.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby wack wack » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:26 am

Dangerousman wrote:And you're welcome to explain what is a "fucking significant" difference in making a call and responding to it. Yeah, there's a difference, but an insignificant one.


Hopefully, Dangerousman, you've settled down and can reconsider this statement, which is one of the dumbest things I've ever read, and doesn't seem reflective of your true mental ability.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby massimo » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:56 am

scratch wrote:To give a more reasoned answer, though, I suggest that Maurer wasn't making a literal comparison of dementia, psychosis, and the level of anyone in particular's intoxication. More like making the case that in instances where individuals exhibit diminished capacities, the cops tread more lightly than they might otherwise. Of course the cop (or other minions of legitimate behavior) may not always have the time to make this judgement, as may have been the case here. I don't know and I'm content to let this question be worked out by the responsible parties.

I agree, and I'm pretty sure Meade agrees, too, but he's continuing his little game of "blame the victim, blame the cop, memorialize the victim, blame the victim again..." Why ever would he choose to leave out just the last sentence in that quote of his?
The part of the quote conspicuously absent wrote:How do the police respond to that?

The answer to this rhetorical question is clearly NOT "putting bullets in them." However, had that person with dementia or psychosis reached for the gun of a cop during a 3am police call, the end result would be the same.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:10 pm

massimo wrote:...continuing his little game of "blame the victim, blame the cop, memorialize the victim, blame the victim again..."
You left out "paint myself as the victim" and "make the ensuing discussion all about me." It's those steps that I found most reprehensible.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby Maggie » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:34 pm

Do you think it is possible that Paul Heenan recognized Officer Heimsness and was incredulous that he would pull a gun on him since they knew each other.

I ask this because Officer Heimsness was a huge supporter and a friend of many prominent Madison musicians and bands including Nate Palan and the Hometown Sweethearts. It seems to me very likely that they both knew each other.

I think that this aspect of this tragic event should be investigated.

One of the saddest consequences of this tragedy is that it is pitting friends and musicians against each other. Others are using it as a political wedge issue, which is very very sad.

It will take time for our community to heal. We won't heal by bringing up old grievances and making this some sort of political, left vs right issue.

It is time for us to come together as a community to mourn and heal. There will be plenty of time to accuse and condemn later.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby Meade » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:31 pm

Maggie wrote:Do you think it is possible that Paul Heenan recognized Officer Heimsness and was incredulous that he would pull a gun on him since they knew each other.

Possible but high improbable. If Heenan had trouble recognizing his own home, he would likely have trouble recognizing, in the dark, a police officer, in uniform, with whom he was only acquainted. Also, if Heenan was on such friendly terms with Heimsness, why would he fail to comply with the officer's orders to "get down"?

Now maybe you can answer a question for me, Maggie: Is it common for residents in that part of Madison to leave their front doors unlocked? If so, why is that done? I find it incomprehensible.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby SombreroFallout » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:36 pm

pjbogart wrote:Walter is a police officer who loves the local music scene. He is well-respected by hipsters and senior citizens alike. No one speaks ill of Walter, in part because we all know deep down inside that being a cop isn't always a fun job. It's important that you always maintain control, largely because you have a gun on your hip and anywhere there's a gun, there's the threat of violence.

Fixed.

Let me state categorically that Steve Heimsness is even more of an asset to this community as a Law Enforcement Officer and as a fellow human now than he was before this happened. He is one of us; he belongs here, in this community, and he's earned a great deal of appreciation for how he goes about his work and for who he is as a person; and he retains high levels of goodwill and support. Heimsness belongs to this neighborhood, is one of many who define this community and make this city what it is. He is Walter; he is a foron.

My condolences to family and friends of Paul Heenan. I didn't know Paul but I've known tons of guys a lot like him. Sounds like he lit up those around him and lived a rich life, even if he hadn't figured out yet that flawed vocalists make the best rock singers, and I'm sorry for your loss.

I have no desire to indulge in any cheap rhetoric about officers tempered by the job or traffic in not-very-useful-right-about-now western-noir archetypes of wounded constables determined to do what has to be done. That's all crap. Don't think you can say this about any other city or guy but if anyone can come back and be better for it, Walter is that capable. Or so I'd like to think. And I don't have any real basis for that belief other than limited DPForum and neighborhood interaction.

Officers don't come through these things unchanged, and coming to terms is never easy, but I am hoping we see Steve out there in the neighborhood again in due course. In the bars as a guy and on the job as an officer. I gather from several posts upthread the mistake may've been in thinking, among musicians at least, that Steve could ever be a friend only, when week-in and week-out for 40 to 60 hours Heimsness couldn't be anything other than Officer Friendly. It's obvious, but it has to be pointed out that respect has to flow both ways.

Now there'll be some recalibration in a number of areas; that's not on Walter, and that's not unhealthy. There's still a lot of good policing that'll need to be done. Navigating-while-trashed in the Wonderland That is White Madison could be throttled back without crimping the general lifestyle. Apparently it needs to be said out loud that Drunken Home Invasion either inadvertent or with mal-intent happens far more regularly than anyone is willing to admit or even wants to think about. It's been going on since forever, in certain quarters you hear about it all the time, and statistically it was only a matter of time before an incident took a bad turn.

Dorms to frats to downtown apartments to homes in outlying areas; doesn't matter. (Junior year one HS classmate, better equipped in sound judgment and smarts than most and visiting from UMn the night before Halloween, found himself upon returning from the bars locked out and unable to wake his host (whom he'd lost track of during the night) -- so he clambered up onto the second-floor front porch and entered the flat through a window .. . tiptoeing around the sleeping dweller in the front bedroom and right on into the main area only to discover he wasn't even in the right house.)

But someone else died that night. The officer who felt comfortable checking out a local show and praising local musicians. He doesn't simply feel awkward, he feels like the enemy. Even when he's among friends who offer him forgiveness and understanding, he'll always feel those eyes, angry and full of mistrust. The old Walter is gone and the man who replaces him will never be quite the same.

The shooting rips a big tear in the social fabric, but jumping to say Walter's a pariah is the wrong way to go. Embracing what we have, what makes Willy Willy and what makes Madison one of a kind, embracing Walter, is that much more vital. Things will be different and Walter will undergo some changes, but Walter is still Walter. The next guy may not be one of us. We're all still here and so is everything Walter knows, so I look forward to seeing him in bars and at events up and down the neighborhood. I get what you're saying but I'm not on-board with saying two men died that night.

Steve Heimsness loves good music, but that doesn't mean musicians are The Deciders here. He'll be in the bars and cafes on duty and in time as a fan and customer, and I hope he'll be made to feel at home. Almost all of these places are more bar than music club, except maybe the Barrymore or the High Noon, as a dozen threads in TDPF and more articles perpetually testify that they're not music venues, but just bars. Which is to say, explicitly, that a ton of the customer base at these joints, music fans but not musicians, may honor your grief and the loss of Paul Heenan and still welcome Steve Heimsness as one of our own. Don't know anybody else I'd say has that kind of credibility.

To Walter-- to Steve Heimsness, I say only this. The Minutemen will not fail you. I know what you're thinking. I still listen to Double Nickels practically every other day and that song is not about you. d boon is dead but Mike Watt still works the thud staff. Our neighborhood still needs a righteous bass line and I hope we'll see you back on the beat.

Please note: this comment emphasizes one aspect of this tragedy, but by no means does it overlook the loss of Paul Heenan or diminish what he meant to those who knew him.

. . . I can't help but feel that this entire story is some modern version of a Greek tragedy.

It's Robert Johnson and Johnny Cash territory, so put it in a song. "Two men died that night" is not the right note to strike here. I get where you're at but that's not helping.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby Kyle Motor » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:11 pm

SombreroFallout, thank you for that excellent post.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby Mandoliniment » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:41 pm

Kyle Motor wrote:SombreroFallout, thank you for that excellent post.


I second this.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby Meade » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:49 pm

massimo wrote: Why ever would he choose to leave out just the last sentence in that quote of his?
The part of the quote conspicuously absent wrote:How do the police respond to that?

The answer to this rhetorical question is clearly NOT "putting bullets in them." However, had that person with dementia or psychosis reached for the gun of a cop during a 3am police call, the end result would be the same.

massimo, I just now noticed your question. My omission of that sentence was inadvertent. I'm glad you caught that.

But your answer to the question is only half correct. As far as we know, from Chief Wray's report, Officer Heimsness did not just "put bullets in" Heenan. It was a matter of self-defense to a reasonably perceived threat.

You are correct, however, to caution anyone - intoxicated, demented, psychotic, or otherwise - to always comply with a police officer and never reach for his sidearm for any reason.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby ralphie w » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:41 pm

Sombrero, I third this.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby snoqueen » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:06 pm

Same from me -- not only to that post but to all those who have written from the heart.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby fennel » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:03 pm

Ayeh.

I'm just not ready to discount such a dedicated, nuanced, and humorous character as Walter.

That's about all I can say.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby Ttusker » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:40 pm

I, too, agree with everything SombreroFallout wrote in that eloquent post. I believe that, now and then, (paraphrasing B. Kliban here) due to the convergence of forces beyond our comprehension, horrible things happen. This was one of them. Something that absolutely should not have happened did. I'm not going to try and understand it, or ponder whether there is a lesson here to be learned. I'm just going to acknowledge the impact it has had on the people involved (which is really all of us), mourn the death of Paul Heenan, trust that Walter can get beyond this without too much scarring, and hope that eventually we can all heal.
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Re: Monovox guitarist, Paul Heenan, Killed by Madison Police

Postby Mrs.Walter » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:43 pm

snoqueen wrote: .... to all those who have written from the heart.

...I thank you.
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