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The gun thread

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:06 am

Henry Vilas wrote:The NRA is laying low after the latest gun massacre. They even took down their Facebook page.

FOX news also refused to discuss policy issues about guns. I guess they, like the NRA (and our now absent forum gun nut), want any talk about gun regulations to die down and be forgotten.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby david cohen » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:44 pm

On this morning's news cycle, the NRA was starting to trot out their GOP politicians to diffuse the subject. "We can talk about assault weapons bans IF we also talk about video games, Hollywood movies, parenting etc."
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:49 pm

david cohen wrote:"We can talk about assault weapons bans IF we also talk about video games, Hollywood movies, parenting etc."


I hope they added news coverage of violent acts and governments going to war as well.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:50 pm

The near-unanimous silence is very creepy, particularly from a political sector that usually reacts to just about anything with a whole lot of noise.

I am wondering who gave the order.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby TheBookPolice » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:03 pm

snoqueen wrote:The near-unanimous silence is very creepy, particularly from a political sector that usually reacts to just about anything with a whole lot of noise.

I am wondering who gave the order.

Image
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Mean Scenester » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:12 pm

david cohen wrote:On this morning's news cycle, the NRA was starting to trot out their GOP politicians to diffuse the subject. "We can talk about assault weapons bans IF we also talk about video games, Hollywood movies, parenting etc."

Interesting to note they don't talk about mental health parity, arguably the most effective measure we could take outside of gun control measures to lessen the likelihood of events like this.

'Cause ... you know ... that would mean an expansion of health care services and funding. And we all know how the Haves feel about granting those "luxuries" to the Have-Nots.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby jjoyce » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:11 am

I was witness to a discussion the other day about how legislation regulating certain types of ammunition, in particular certain materials used in armor-piercing (aka "cop killer") bullets, could be a problem for target shooters and hunters.

The point was made that a lot of these folks reload their own bullets and shells, that it's a big savings if you tend to spend more than a few hundred dollars on bullets each year. They don't use lead, which is a danger to the environment, and instead use stuff that could render their bullets illegal. Not only that, but it's a relaxing hobby.

So, y'know, if legislation is passed to ban the use of armor-piercing ammunition, a lot of good people could lose the ability to manufacture their own ammunition. This ought to be a big concern for us, apparently, the loss of a nice hobby.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:23 pm

The shooter-people I know (hunter types more than suburban terrorists) do that because it saves a lot of money. Ammunition is expensive. I can see the point of that.

You'd think with all the technology we have, a way could be found for reloaders to save money and still conform to whatever new laws can be passed. That's why we have, like, a legislature, hearings, and the like -- so everybody's concerns get addressed.

Or it was once.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:26 pm

jjoyce wrote: This ought to be a big concern for us, apparently, the loss of a nice hobby.

Another very serious concern:
But they ["industry sources"] also indicated that Feinstein's provisions relating to the number of rounds a weapon can accommodate will be contested fiercely. "A standard semi-automatic handgun holds 12 to 14 rounds," one source close to the issue told Fox News. "Everyone would have to retool and new hardware would have to be made. That's going to be very expensive to manufacturers."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12 ... z2FWW2eJzT

I do hope legislators give these concerns all the consideration they deserve.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:59 pm

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Re: The gun thread

Postby kurt_w » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:13 am

Gosh, what could possibly go wrong in a world where every person goes armed to protect him or herself against every other person?

From the Tampa Bay Times:
[O]n Sunday, at a pizza joint in St. Petersburg, a man tried to use [Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law] as justification for shooting another customer who was yelling at workers because he wasn't getting his order fast enough.

Police said the incident unfolded about 4 p.m. inside the Little Caesars, 3463 Fourth St. N, after Randall White, 49, got mad about his service.


The two men started arguing, then shoving each other. Then one of them pulled out a gun:

He fired one round, hitting White in the lower torso. The men grappled and the gun fired again, hitting White in roughly the same spot, police said.

One bullet lodged in a wall in the restaurant, which was occupied by at least two other people.

After the shooting, both men went outside and waited for police. Jock told officers the shooting was justified under "stand your ground," Puetz said.


Fortunately no one died in this incident. But that could easily have turned out differently.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:51 am

I try to keep an open mind. So I've been waiting for one single pro-gun person to make a coherent defense of their position, that doesn't involve me getting killed.

Point:
Think of what Sandy Hook might have been like if a couple of male teachers who had played high-school football, or even some of the huskier 12-year-old boys, had converged on Lanza.


Counterpoint:
OK. I've thought about it. THEY'D ALL BE DEAD NOW, TOO.


Read more: Daily Politics Blog - Charles P. Pierce - Political Blogging - Esquire http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/#ixzz2FbUEXbFe

I'm still waiting.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:56 am

And that picture of the Israeli schoolteacher with her students and her gun? The NRA (or their proxies) need to think again before they advertise Israel is their model state. Here's Israeli Public Security Ministry’s Firearms Licensing Department head Yaakov Amit, quoted in this link:
http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Artic ... ?id=296480

I tried to prune this to keep it within the boundaries of fair use -- please see original link for the rest.

“....In America the right to bear arms is written in the law, here it’s the opposite... only those who have a license can bear arms and not everyone can get a license.”

Amit said gun licenses are only given out to those who have a reason because they work in security or law enforcement....

Anyone who fits the requirements, is over age 21 and an Israeli resident for more than three years, must go through a mental and physical health exam, Amit said, then pass shooting exams and courses at a licensed gun range, as well as background checks by the Public Security Ministry.

Once they order their firearm from a gun store, they are allowed to take it home with a one-time supply of 50 bullets, which Amit said they cannot renew.

The gun owner must retake his license exam and testing at the gun range every three years. As of January, Amit said, a new law will go into effect requiring gun owners to prove that they have a safe at home to keep their weapon in.


In your dreams.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:22 am

snoqueen wrote:And that picture of the Israeli schoolteacher with her students and her gun? The NRA (or their proxies) need to think again before they advertise Israel is their model state.


Can't get the article to load at the moment, so it might mention it, but the other bit the NRA ignores is that Israel has compulsory military service for both genders. There are better than even odds that any teacher with a firearm in Israel has received a much better training in the use of that firearm than the majority of US teachers.

And even with that training, they still would have a harder time getting a firearm than your average 18 year old in the US.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby wack wack » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:38 pm

Let's talk about community "gun buyback" events for a moment: can we stop this folly, or at least stop pretending they address the real problem?

Last night, one of the cable news networks ran a piece on all these buyback events around the country. Lines of people waiting to turn in mountains of guns to police in exchange for gift cards or cash. No questions asked.

The problem is, the mountain of guns consisted almost exclusively of old hunting rifles and revolvers. Rusting, uncleaned, obviously unused-in-a-very-long-time revolvers. I did see one "assault rifle," an old school M-16 that looked like the old "S.W.A.T." machine gun I had as a kid more than a modern assault weapon. I've never sold a rifle, but based on my limited experience with revolvers I'd guess each of those guns had a street value of close to $0, and this was a rare opportunity for each owner to get something for nothing, not an effort of community.

And the lines of people? Mostly old, mostly white. Anybody can be a criminal, but I'd guess this is the demo least likely to commit violent gun crimes. The criminals still have their guns.

Are these just supposed to make us feel better, or do "officials" really believe these events are effectively address gun problems? Am I being too cynical?
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