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Government Motors...a success story.

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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Crockett » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:11 am

fisticuffs wrote:
Lock in the loss.


Small price to pay for all the American jobs that were saved.


You must be an economist because your reasoning is so econometrically based. Save jobs at any cost. Got it. I'm writing this down. You should hear from the Committee in Norway in 2013.

Why don't we just pay people tax revenues to dig ditches too? I mean, a job is a job regardless of how inferior, costly, non-competitively-advantaged the product is. Jobs Jobs Jobs. Better not cut defense spending either. JOBS.
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby fisticuffs » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:13 am

That's not what I wrote. You're better than this line of BS.
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Crockett » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:14 am

Stebben84 wrote:The math is still coming.

But the Treasury Department has long argued that the auto makers’ bailout was always expected to be unprofitable, offset by both the A.I.G. rescue and the bank recapitalization program.


Emphasis mine. But hey, I guess you would have rather we lost 1 million jobs.


Hilarious. Yeah, good luck with GM doubling in price in the next year. I'll take that bet.

Also, the AIG rescue and bank recapitalization 'made money' because the treasury has been lending the banks truckloads of money at 0%. The banks then go and buy US Treasuries at >0% for a risk-free arbitrage. Which conveniently keeps rates artificially low so they can stoke inflation and monetize the debt on the backs of poor and middle-class people. Pretty hard to lose money on that deal. Unless of course you're a US taxpayer...

So to recap, the banks make money because the government has been giving them a stealth bailout for years. In addition to the above-the-board bailout. NYT bought it, you should too I guess.
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:18 am

Crockett wrote:I mean, a job is a job regardless of how inferior, costly, non-competitively-advantaged the product is. Jobs Jobs Jobs. Better not cut defense spending either. JOBS.


So I guess you're not in favor of the Republican talking points about creating more jobs. 250,000 ring a bell as a major campaign topic? How many times did Romney talk about Obama's failure to create jobs.

Crockett wrote:Hilarious. Yeah, good luck with GM doubling in price in the next year. I'll take that bet.


Did I say that? You said do the math, yet that would be inaccurate as more money will be coming in. By the way, just to piss you off since you seem to be in some "mood" today.

Image
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby kurt_w » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:44 am

Crockett wrote:Which conveniently keeps rates artificially low so they can stoke inflation and monetize the debt on the backs of poor and middle-class people.


Current US inflation rate: 1.8%

Inflation rate during Reagan's second term:
Start of term: 3.5%
End of term: 4.7%

source

What was that about "stoking inflation"?
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Crockett » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:09 am

kurt_w wrote:
Crockett wrote:Which conveniently keeps rates artificially low so they can stoke inflation and monetize the debt on the backs of poor and middle-class people.


Current US inflation rate: 1.8%

Inflation rate during Reagan's second term:
Start of term: 3.5%
End of term: 4.7%

source

What was that about "stoking inflation"?


I get it. I said they were trying ("stoking"). Unfortunately Japan has been trying for a decade and a half. Trust me, I'd rather see inflation at this point. The alternative you outlined above is scarier.

But let's agree to refrain from giving the govt or banks credit for 'making profits' at this point.
Last edited by Crockett on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Crockett » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:10 am

Stebben84 wrote:
Crockett wrote:I mean, a job is a job regardless of how inferior, costly, non-competitively-advantaged the product is. Jobs Jobs Jobs. Better not cut defense spending either. JOBS.


So I guess you're not in favor of the Republican talking points about creating more jobs. 250,000 ring a bell as a major campaign topic? How many times did Romney talk about Obama's failure to create jobs.


I voted for Obama this time around. But please, continue to paint in black and white. Its easier for the two sides to manipulate your brain that way. Good and evil. Conservative and liberal. Go on.
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby kurt_w » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:15 am

Crockett wrote:
kurt_w wrote:
Crockett wrote:Which conveniently keeps rates artificially low so they can stoke inflation and monetize the debt on the backs of poor and middle-class people.


Current US inflation rate: 1.8%

Inflation rate during Reagan's second term:
Start of term: 3.5%
End of term: 4.7%

source

What was that about "stoking inflation"?


I get it. I said they were trying ("stoking"). Unfortunately Japan has been trying for a decade and a half. Trust me, I'd rather see inflation at this point. The alternative you outlined above is scarier.


Maybe you need to clarify a bit, because this just makes things more confusing.

"Stoking inflation" would "monetize the debt on the backs of poor and middle-class people"? Which sounds bad! Except ... you think that would be a good thing. But so far the Fed has been keeping inflation low ... so that must be good for poor people and the middle class. Which you find "scary".

Do I have that right?
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Average Joe » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:39 pm

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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby kriley » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:46 am

If you are going to criticise RR for inflation creeping up 1% in his second term, what do you have to say about inflation dropping from 14.5% at the end of the disastrous Carter presidency to the 3.4 at the end of RRs first?
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Meade » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:01 pm

The Obama administration had been reluctant to sell its GM shares before the November election, in part because of the auto maker's sagging stock price. It needed the stock to hit $52.39 a share to break even. Now it must sell its remaining shares at $69.72 to break even.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 22486.html

GM shares closed at $27.31 on Friday.
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby pjbogart » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:50 am

Ok, let's look at spending priorities. According to the CBO the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars will cost American taxpayers $2.4 trillion through 2017 when you include the interest on borrowed money to pay for the war.

That would be 2400 billion dollars.
2,400,000 million dollars

Can anyone tell me what we got for that money?

The latest estimates on the cost of the auto bailout to American taxpayers is about $25.1 billion, roughly one percent of the cost of the wars. That money saved an estimated one million jobs and as far as I know, no one died.

If you're willing to admit that one million unemployed people put a strain on government services, including lost revenue because they aren't paying taxes, unemployment, Medicaid, food stamps, etc., I'd say that $2500 per job saved was a pretty good investment. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the auto bailout might have saved us money.
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Crockett » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:43 am

pjbogart wrote:Ok, let's look at spending priorities. According to the CBO the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars will cost American taxpayers $2.4 trillion through 2017 when you include the interest on borrowed money to pay for the war.

That would be 2400 billion dollars.
2,400,000 million dollars

Can anyone tell me what we got for that money?


Why stop at GM for government bailouts that 'create/save' jobs? Wars 'create' a ton of jobs. You could argue that peace is a job-killer.
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Crockett » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:43 am

By the way, the government is locking in the losses:

At current trading prices, Treasury would lose around $10 billion on its GM bailout.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2013 ... z2VLhKg0DI
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Re: Government Motors...a success story.

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:50 am

2.4 TRILLION vs. 10 BILLION. One creates temporary jobs and people get killed. The other creates stable long term jobs and nobody dies from it.

Hmmmm, which would I rather have?
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