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The Immigration Debate

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

The Immigration Debate

Postby pjbogart » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:33 pm

If you've been paying attention to the national news at all, you'll know that immigration is the topic du jour and will likely give us an insight into the direction Republican leadership wishes to take their party. I don't envy their position, but I don't really feel sorry for them either.

Marco Rubio made an appearance on Rush Limbaugh to perhaps reach out to a hostile (Republican) audience and soften them up a bit, but I'm not sure that Rush or many of his listeners were taking the bait. Immigrants, particularly Mexican immigrants, have been a scapegoat of the right for several decades now. The average Republican voter has been inundated by tales of Mexican families sleeping on mountains of food stamps, clogging emergency rooms for free health care and standing in line at the welfare office for some free money. Republican voters' anger is real, and not easily reversed.

From a practical standpoint, Republican leadership realizes that the electoral college math is slipping away from them. Obviously everyone recognizes electoral landslides in 2008 and 2012, but if you consider that Bush barely eked out wins in 2000 and 2004, the last comfortable Republican win, at least from the electoral college standpoint, was in 1988. That's 25 years ago.

So now I guess we get to watch the fireworks. On the one hand, softening their stance on immigration is basically nothing more than survival instinct, but on the other hand, alienating your most reliable voting bloc hardly seems like good politics. If the old adage "dance with the one that brought you" holds true, the Tea Party will continue to reject any immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship for immigrants currently in the country illegally. Will Boehner have to break his own rule just to bring an immigration bill up for a vote?

On a side note, Obama has threatened that if he doesn't get an immigration bill on his desk, he'll write one himself and send it to Congress. This would be a terrible situation for Republicans because they'd be pilloried by their own voters if they voted for the bill or solidify their reputation as being anti-immigrant if they vote against it. Better to just hammer one out in the House or Senate and avoid the showdown.
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby bdog » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:53 pm

#1 with a bullet
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Igor » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:19 pm

I think the issue that would win Republican votes would be to couple the path to citizenship with meaningful future enforcement of immigration policy. The Democrats are betting that they can get the path to citizenship while essentially leaving things the way they are. (open immigration policies from bordering nations, strict immigration policies from other countries) I suspect the Democrats are correct.
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby The One » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:46 pm

The Republicans would be foolish to believe softening their stand on immigration would help their party out in the future. Immigration sure didn't win Obama the election with Hispanics, according to polls.

Gallup poll immigration was fifth in issues most important to likely Hispanic voters behind health care, unemployment, economic growth, and the gap between the rich and poor.

In a Pew Research Hispanic Center poll immigration was fifth

Fox News Latino poll "only 6 percent said their vote would be decided based on the immigration issue."

I'm sure pro-illegal groups are spoon feeding the media that Obama carrying 71% of the Hispanic was a mandate on immigration and the media is eating it up.
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Detritus » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:43 pm

The One wrote:I'm sure pro-illegal groups are spoon feeding the media that Obama carrying 71% of the Hispanic was a mandate on immigration and the media is eating it up.

And I'm sure that pro-narcoterrorist groups are spoon-feeding the media that the U.S. desperately needs a militarized border with Mexico, and the media is eating it up.
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby pjbogart » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:01 am

The One wrote:I'm sure pro-illegal groups are spoon feeding the media that Obama carrying 71% of the Hispanic was a mandate on immigration and the media is eating it up.


Exhibit A: Why Republicans have an "Hispanic problem".

I don't know what a "pro-Illegal group" is, but keep saying it... over and over and over.

Also, the fact that Hispanics consider immigration policy to be a few steps down their ladder of priorities doesn't mean that their vote doesn't hinge on it. For instance, let's say my priorities are "jobs, the economy, healthcare" in that order. Candidate B might be a Christian Fundamentalist and that's enough, regardless of my priorities, to vote against him. Frankly, I don't care what his opinions are on jobs, the economy or healthcare. He's a kook and I'm not voting for him.
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby The One » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:46 pm

pjbogart wrote:Exhibit A: Why Republicans have an "Hispanic problem".

I don't know what a "pro-Illegal group" is, but keep saying it... over and over and over.

Also, the fact that Hispanics consider immigration policy to be a few steps down their ladder of priorities doesn't mean that their vote doesn't hinge on it. For instance, let's say my priorities are "jobs, the economy, healthcare" in that order. Candidate B might be a Christian Fundamentalist and that's enough, regardless of my priorities, to vote against him. Frankly, I don't care what his opinions are on jobs, the economy or healthcare. He's a kook and I'm not voting for him.

What is a Christian Fundamentalist? Someone who votes because of their religious views? That's a pretty shallow view, in my opinion. Candidate B may have great plans for jobs, the economy, and healthcare...but if he has strong religious views, screw that, he's not getting your vote.

I'm not Hispanic, but I doubt they all think alike and find immigration a huge issue. I'm sure there are some who won't vote for somebody because they don't support illegal immigrants getting the same rights and benefits a L.P.R. or citizen get, but to direct a party to give into the views of a few is just foolish.
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby jman111 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:51 pm

The One wrote:...but to direct a party to give into the views of a few is just foolish.

As the kids like to say, ROFL!
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:59 pm

...but to direct a party to give into the views of a few is just foolish.


Nah. We wouldn't want our political parties to pay any attention to the views of a few, particularly now that we're well on the way to being a majority-minority country -- that is, a country where white people are at most a plurality, not a majority. If the Republicans continue to be a mostly-white party statistically (just look at the recent presidential election) they'll never get much more than the percentage represented by that white plurality. Presumably you think to acknowledge this fact is, well, just foolish.

Give me a good reason Hispanics should vote for a party that wants to send a whole lot of their fellow Hispanics back to whatever country they or their ancestors came from. I don't see much appeal, myself, to voting for a party that wishes I wasn't here.

Do you guys ever read what you write?
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby pjbogart » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:40 pm

snoqueen wrote:Give me a good reason Hispanics should vote for a party that wants to send a whole lot of their fellow Hispanics back to whatever country they or their ancestors came from. I don't see much appeal, myself, to voting for a party that wishes I wasn't here.


Man, if sending them home was the only issue I think Republicans would get a bit more support. I mean, legal immigrants went through the proper channels and probably spent a lot of blood, sweat and tears to do so... they aren't all that willing to stick their necks out for people who didn't play by the rules. No, I'd say all you need to do is go read a few pages of commentary on any Yahoo article dealing with immigration (or gun control, or Michelle Obama, or... uh... carrots) and you'll find out why Republicans have an Hispanic problem. They're vicious racists. And the fools can't speak English much better than the folks who just swam across the Rio Grande last week.

Republicans have a big problem on their hands. Frankenstein's monster is alive and well, and apparently if you get him wet or feed him after midnight, you've got about 20 million monsters on your hands. It will be fun watching Republicans try to stuff the genie back in the bottle, but they've spent 30 years telling their voters that Mexicans are subhuman animals. Now they want to soften the rhetoric and see if they can't score some of those votes? Good luck with that.

The problem isn't the Republican Party. The problem is their base. After 30 years of propaganda, from FoxNews to Rush Limbaugh, these folks aren't just talking the talk, they're walking the walk. They don't think that Mexicans are destroying the country, they know it.

Think of it this way, if the king of the fundies, whoever that is, decided that it was time to drop the whole "6000 year-old" Earth bit, how long would it take you to convince the rest of the fundamentalists that evolution isn't some crackpot liberal conspiracy? Ideas become ingrained.

Mexicans are destroying our country. They're coming over the border and collecting food stamps and welfare. The reason your taxes are too high is because of the Mexicans. The reason insurance costs so much is because of the Mexicans. The reason gun violence is so bad is because of Mexican drug gangs. They cut off peoples' heads and leave them in the street. The reason you can't find a job is because of the Mexicans. You can't even speak English in parts of Texas now because there are so many Mexicans.

Oh, hey, we decided to give "the illegals" citizenship. Is that OK with you guys?
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Stella_Guru » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:50 pm

Oh shit, what to do. The way of life Whitey has come to accept as their just due is threatened by the hordes at the gate! And, the "rising tide" has only lifted their yachts.
Last edited by Stella_Guru on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby rabble » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:54 pm

Who could forget this golden quote from GG Liddy:
I understand that they found out today that Miss Sotomayor is a member of La Raza, which means in illegal alien, “the race.” And that should not surprise anyone because she’s already on record with a number of racist comments.
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby The One » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:11 pm

snoqueen wrote:Nah. We wouldn't want our political parties to pay any attention to the views of a few, particularly now that we're well on the way to being a majority-minority country -- that is, a country where white people are at most a plurality, not a majority. If the Republicans continue to be a mostly-white party statistically (just look at the recent presidential election) they'll never get much more than the percentage represented by that white plurality. Presumably you think to acknowledge this fact is, well, just foolish.

Give me a good reason Hispanics should vote for a party that wants to send a whole lot of their fellow Hispanics back to whatever country they or their ancestors came from. I don't see much appeal, myself, to voting for a party that wishes I wasn't here.

Do you guys ever read what you write?

And here we go. It's the mean old white Republicans that are keeping their foot on the throat of darker skinned crowd.

In the polls I linked too, the minority of Hispanics think immigration is a key issue in the last election. If you think my statement was saying that Republicans shouldn't steer their party based on the views of a few, meaning race, you took it way out of context.

I know it's hard for many of you see, but social welfare programs are not funded well. I understand that many people have a hard time making ends meet and they need the help of the government. I want that net to remain in place and strong. However, one way of breaking that net is to add millions of more people on. Qualifying millions of illegal immigrants for the benifits granted to L.P.R. would hurt our countries social programs. But the way around that is tax the rich, right?
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby jman111 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:50 am

The One wrote: If you think my statement was saying that Republicans shouldn't steer their party based on the views of a few, meaning race, you took it way out of context.

But, uhhhh...
The One wrote:I'm not Hispanic, but I doubt they all think alike and find immigration a huge issue. I'm sure there are some who won't vote for somebody because they don't support illegal immigrants getting the same rights and benefits a L.P.R. or citizen get, but to direct a party to give into the views of a few is just foolish.

(emphasis mine)
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby The One » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:26 pm

jman111 wrote:
The One wrote: If you think my statement was saying that Republicans shouldn't steer their party based on the views of a few, meaning race, you took it way out of context.

But, uhhhh...
The One wrote:I'm not Hispanic, but I doubt they all think alike and find immigration a huge issue. I'm sure there are some who won't vote for somebody because they don't support illegal immigrants getting the same rights and benefits a L.P.R. or citizen get, but to direct a party to give into the views of a few is just foolish.

(emphasis mine)

Then let me restate the point to make it more clear since it seems many of you don't understand what I'm trying to say...
To direct a party, if they are trying to attract the majority of the Hispanic vote, making immigration their top issue to attract the said Hispanic vote, when statistics show that it was not a top priority to Hispanics in the last election, before addressing the other top issues that matter to Hispanics, is foolish. I don't mean "few" as in all Hispanics, understanding that they are a minority (soon to be a majority in the United States). I mean "few" in (as one poll showed) 6% of 100% of Hispanics who vote.
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